Reece Wabara

Reece Wabara is a former professional footballer turned fashion CEO powerhouse.

Reece played for Manchester City and several loan spells at clubs including Ipswich, Oldham and Blackpool, before he founded Manière De Voir in 2014 - a sports luxe brand - whilst in the midst of a football career.

The multi-million pound Manchester-based online fashion brand has reported a 187% year on year increase in net revenue to over £5 million in the three months to 31 June.

TRANSCRIPT

Jake [00:00:00] The only other thing to mention is the reason for Damian's involvement, apart from his good dogs. It's that I just... When I had this idea, I thought people would just gonna go, "You're just the fucking bloke who used to go on kids' telly." Now you just think, you don't wanna high performance. And so Damian's a professor at Manchester Uni, and he spent time with Barcelona, wrote a book about Barcelona Football Club and the culture they've created and stuff. So Damian brings proper research-based evidence about creating a winning mindset, of which you'll probably hear a bit of info in the podcast, and you can think on this one for... until we get going if you want. The first question always is, "What is high performance?".

Unknown [00:00:37] OK.

Jake [00:00:38] So you're gonna, you're gonna have an answer ready for that one, are you...?

Unknown [00:00:41] Yes (inaudible).

Jake [00:01:03] Where's your office? Where is...?

Unknown [00:01:05] It's in the city centre of Manchester, and then the warehouse is next to Old Trafford.

Jake [00:01:08] So what are you up and down all the time?

Unknown [00:01:10] Yeah.

Jake [00:01:10] You're not using those sweatshops in Leicester, I hope. Boohoo. Again, dragged through the muscle.

Unknown [00:01:15] We don't make anything in England actually. Um, but yeah, I commute. I get up on, I get up on Tuesday mornings really early, the state of Thursday night, so...

Jake [00:01:24] Do you have like a CEO or an M.D. that sort of runs it day-to-day or is that you?

Unknown [00:01:27] That's me, yeah. I have a finance director, an operations manager, but in terms of the vision and the product to market, that's really done by myself. Yeah.

Unknown [00:01:38] Could I just ask you one time just to clap just so we can see that everything is in places? Yeah. OK. That's good.

Jake [00:01:49] We did well there. All in sync. OK. Hi there, I'm Jake Humphrey. You're listening to High Performance, the podcast that delves into the minds of some of the most successful athletes, visionaries, entrepreneurs and artists on the planet and aims to unlock the very secrets to their success. As ever, I'm not alone. Our resident professor and author Damian Hughes is with us. And Damian, sometimes we speak to sporting stars, other times we speak to entrepreneurs who've done amazing things. It's rare for us to get the

chance to speak to somebody who's nailed both of those things, both of which are incredibly hard to do.

Damian [00:02:22] Yeah, I think the bomb word summary of what I'm really interested in exploring today, Jake, is the term "commitment". You know, this is somebody that's been committed in two dynamic, fast-moving industries and been successful in both. So I'm really excited about it.

Jake [00:02:40] Unbelievable. Are you thirsty? Oh, thanks, mate!

Damian [00:02:43] So, let me just do the last part, yeah? So I'm really excited to find out more.

Jake [00:02:48] Right. Let's do it then. Let's meet today's guest, and he did something very few young lads with a dream around him would have managed. He made his Manchester City first team debut as a teenager. He then played for seven clubs over the next few years, but for him, it wasn't all about the game. He was building a fashion brand, which has become a multi-million-pound success story worn by some famous faces, and he is absolutely the driving force of that. I follow him on Twitter. It gives me inspiration, actually, just by seeing the things he puts out there. He is the man that runs Maniere de Voir. He was a professional footballer. He's the epitome of a young self-made success story. Reece Wabara, welcome to High Performance!

Reece [00:03:26] Thank you for having me!

Jake [00:03:27] It's nice to have you with us. So let's start as we always do. What is high performance?

Reece [00:03:34] I think high performance is, is obviously the one percent of the one percent. And I think what really defines high performance is consistency in how long you can maintain that reign at the top, so to speak. It's almost no excuse, mind's full accountability. And yeah, just consistency. You know you've got to do the same things over and over again and in the hope of obviously achieving the wildest dreams, but I was actually speaking to a friend yesterday, the theory is pretty simple but very hard to execute. And it's just a case of set a new plan, set what you want to achieve, research on who's the best in the industry and find a way to almost emulate and add your stamp on that and, obviously, with the aims of being even better than that person that is the best at the current moment. And you've just got to wake up every day and make sure that whatever you set out to do, you do and, like I said, be consistent with it. I think a lot of people and my generation and millennials, when they don't get immediate success, they give up because of the state of social media and whatnot now. It's like there are so many... Well, there appear to be so many instant successes, but I think there's a saying that says it takes... Well, there's an overnight success. It took me 10 years to do so. And I think that's the problem in today's world now. Even myself, I think people look at my current where I live or the cause I have or whatever and think, "Oh, that happened overnight." But that's been seven years everyday, non-stop, you know, analysing data, research, and I've seen the fash mode, seen what trends had come in and gone etc. So high performance is yes, sticking to your task every day and getting the work done.

Jake [00:05:24] You're talking there about your successful mindset, and you... and you referred quite a few times to, "Most people think this" or "Most people think that," and you're totally right in that. But where does this come from for you? Where did this mindset

develop all this understanding of, you know, something we've seen from quite a few successful people where immediately you said, "I spoke to a mate. We broke down exactly where we want to go and how we're going to get there." And then you just simply follow the process like... That is a very difficult thing for a lot of people to understand, let alone execute. So where did it... Where is it developed from?

Reece [00:05:56] When I was around 23, I started reading, like, very extensively, and what I noticed is a pattern emerging of several of the books, and all of the people who, all the authors of the books have typically achieved good things with that's been off or in different backgrounds. And they all kind of alluded to the same process and mindset. And effectively, if you could write the key points of all of those books, they would practically say the same thing. So reading definitely helped me.

Jake [00:06:22] What were they like? How do you summarise those now in your head, those points in the book right now?

Reece [00:06:27] You've got to think really big. You can't make excuses. You have to hold yourself accountable for everything that happens. More so on the bad side because success is also shared, whereas failures is normally you've just got to take it, take on the chin and hold it for yourself. I'm trying to think what else there is. Yeah, mostly, those three points.

Jake [00:06:49] What I like there about that, and Damian, you've spoken about this so many times. Really what Reece is talking about, there is 100 percent responsibility. Don't have any excuses. Don't pass the buck to anybody.

Damian [00:07:00] Yeah, and that's the thing that's come out in all of the interviews that we've done with high performers has been the side error. It might not be your fault, but it's your responsibility to fix it and to make the best of it.

Reece [00:07:13] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Everything can't be 100 percent your fault. But if you're a leader and you hire someone and they don't do the job correctly, that's still your fault because you hired the person or you could have pointed steps or processes to help that person not make the errors. So when in my business, people make errors, first of all, I look at myself and go, "How could I've helped that person do their job better?" and, obviously, I try to fix that. I guess after, you know, three or four times you're gonna, you know, say, "OK, well, maybe that's not the right person." But there are always things you can do in your daily life to make sure that you don't fail. Or if you do fail, you can break that down systematically, and it's probably a reason why failures sure happened.

Jake [00:07:52] See, what intrigued me, Reece, from what is written about your career today, was that your success as a footballer makes you unique. There's that statistic that less than half a percent of kids that set off on a journey will become a professional. So you succeeded there, and then you've got into a fast-moving, dynamic, competitive world of fashion, and you succeeded in there. Do you think having those two options helped or hindered you in each of those careers, both as a footballer and a business leader?

Reece [00:08:25] In bits, in football education, as a business leader, it definitely helped me because you have to be so resilient in football. There's constant rejection, and, obviously, that rejection, you eventually become numb to it. You obviously... Well, fortunately, I was one month, you know, I was around really high-performance people at the top of their game. So just watching how they operate on a daily, I can only, I could take nuggets from

them and understand more. That's what you have to do, no matter like whether it's the Gweru or David Silver. They're always doing the same thing every single day, no matter their success, and I wish I would have learnt those skills maybe earlier in my career or had the intelligence to analyse it and observe it 'cause I only looked back in hindsight and realised, "Oh, that person was so consistent and never changed in terms of their output and input towards their craft." And I was probably a little naive and maybe not intelligent enough to spot those signs early on, but it definitely aided me in business. I guess the business actually hindered me in football because when I was playing, obviously, the business was... I was 22 when I started, and I think at the time I just left Man City. And I think I went to Doncaster initially and then... And I think after a year or so, the business was doing quite successful for a start-up, and, you know, in that football sphere, there was a lot of people wearing it. There was a lot of friends of the footballers wearing it. So in that world, it was seen quite a lot, to be honest. And obviously, social media was on uprise, and the reach of everything was astronomically more than it is now. So it was like in everyone's faces, so to speak. And when you've got managers who are quite dated and old-school, and they see a young boy, and I was always rather flamboyant, probably too flamboyant for the level I was at, but that was just my personality. I've always been that way, and I didn't really wanna change. But when you've got someone driving a nice car, young and has a business straightaway, those dots connect and song goes, "He's not interested in football. He just wants to have that lifestyle." So unfortunately, I managed a slowly progress from Doncaster, and then I went to Barnsley. I think I then moved from Barnsley to Wigan in six months. And then obviously, I was on the League of Wigan, and I was in Team of the Year. Then I got released. So obviously, being team and then being released was... The rumours I heard about why I was released because obviously, no one could attribute it to my own pitch performances. It was insane, but I just sat down with the manager in this season, and he said, "I don't think you're focused on football," which my, obviously, response was, "The numbers are in line here. So what's the issue?" And that, that kind of disheartened me, to be fair. And then I stopped playing for almost a year and then obviously to stop doing so funny you've been doing since a kid is... For the first six months, I was like probably a little bit bitter, so I was like, "Whatever, I don't wannna play." Then, you know, the next six months was like, "OK, now I'm thinking about getting back into football." And that's when I went to Bolton, but a year at the game is... And I think it was like middle of the season, and I had to pick up the slack. It was quite, quite difficult when I only started finding my fitness towards the end of the season, and I was in good form as well, which obviously led to that promotion, so... And then I just decided to completely stop because the business was doing really well, and our focus is super important and doing both, as I remember my dad saying, "It's easier to do both" like yeah, you would say. But obviously, to be high performance in two rounds, I don't think it's... it's obviously possible, but it's extremely difficult because, you know, there's only one person. And to have your mind in two headspaces is one in business with staff and lots of moving parts and then one in football when you've got travel. You know, I never switch stuff. It was like, "OK, Monday to Friday, I would go to training and go into the office." And I'm like, "Oh, I'm tired from momentarily tired from business. I've got a game tomorrow, then I'm in recovery for Sunday." So of course, everything is possible, but I think I was 25 at the time, I'm 28 now, or 26. I can't remember. And I just had to make a choice. What's most long- term? Where am I gonna be the best of the best? And unfortunately, at the time, I mean, it was possible for me to play in the Premier League, and I think that would have been likely, but to be a Champions League when in football, it was very low percentage. So I'd set to make a logical choice, and that was to continue with the business and hopefully take that to the heights it could have.

Jake [00:12:54] So when you look back on it now, do you wish you could maybe make it, made that choice sooner to have left football behind?

Reece [00:13:03] Not necessarily because... I think it needs to get out of my head first. I need to know that, "OK, I've left. I came back." It wasn't... And at that point, I really...

Obviously, I wanted to give everything my all, and I did. And I worked really hard and... But there were too many barriers, too many ceilings to break down, and I'm all for breaking down ceilings, but not if I don't need to or there's no point. So I just needed to kind of get that I'm not gonna be a footballer in my head no more and kind of that mental just break completely and then focus on business. So I think the time was right, and the business was, I think, three years old at that point. So obviously, gaining stability has come from the start of phase, and it's probably the perfect time to be fair in hindsight. But look, better look, given the time I guess.

Jake [00:13:56] I mentioned at the beginning that I follow you on Twitter, and I think your tweets are fascinating. You know, you are very open about finance and things. You will share how much money Maniere de Voir is turning over each month. It looks massively successful. Images of cars. There's like an image of a plane and a nice car with it, and you've put a logo on it. I mean that that's either your plane or that's the ambition, right? But you're making it very, very clear to anyone that follows you quite overtly: this is the ambition. I wanna go to the top, and I'm on my way, and I'm happy to share the whole journey with you. So I want to know how much of that is about you proving the people that couldn't deal with you in football wrong. How much is that fire left over from football, and you're saying, "Yeah, you know what? You thought that this wouldn't happen or you thought I wasn't good enough or whatever. Have a look at how I'm doing."

Reece [00:14:45] Yeah, absolutely. I don't think the fires from football, I think, that pass, I think people knew that business was successful towards my end of, you know, leaving. But that... The fire will always remain. And if the fire is not there, I have to fuel the fire, and that's, that's how I operate because if no one's criticised them, you're down to me. I don't think I can operate at my highest level. I think complacency kills massively. And I think it's almost a trick to my own subconscious that I need someone to kind of say I can't do it.

Jake [00:15:16] So when you're speaking, are you putting that out there so that people maybe come back a year ago or whatever, and then you use that as a fire? Or is... When you put those tweets out, who's in your headlight, or what is in your head?

Reece [00:15:27] So when I, when... I've only started to do that recently, and the reason why I did that mostly is because I don't really do any interviews or press or... I don't, obviously, do a lot of business issues press outlets to showcase their success or whatnot. And I've never done that. And I've done that always because obviously those numbers are those. When you're doing those articles, they're for your ego, ready to say, "Oh, they're doing well." And because I haven't done that for so long, I heard from that like I can hear whispers through the great Fineco. Is MDV even successful? But obviously, you can just call companies' house and do your research. But most people don't do that. They only see what they see on social media and take that up far at face value. So I have almost become my own news outlet to showcase, OK. Well, you talk and you've seen all these articles on other businesses, but these are businesses, not to say they're not better or worse than MDV, but they're different. Like MDV is privately owned. There's no investment. And I kind of break tons of figures to make people stop comparing myself with the brands of others.

And of course, his business is even better than MDV, but just as a case of to be my kind of my own. What's the word? Just to let people know without having to go to the social

media, I mean. Let's say why not? And as you said then also to kind of invite some criticism 'cause, like I said, some people crumble from that stuff. And for me, kind of my friends would tell you, if anybody doubts me or anyone beats me in anything, I will make sure that the next time you won't. That's just how I operate. Not to say like I'm a super competitive person, and I must win everything, it's just the kind of like if someone beats me at chess or whatever, I'm like, "OK. Good game! You did well." Then I'll go away, spend my spare time and make sure that when we play again, they don't win. That's just the way I am as a person. And yeah, I think losing fuels me, and I always say losing is the best thing in the world. And I'm like, I'm a graceful loser because I know the next time I won, this is powerful wisdom. I wish, like I said, when I was younger, I wish I could think how I think now, but hindsight's a wonderful thing. If I would have had the same mentality and do it say 26 when I was 19, I'm sure I would be, you know, higher up in the football world than finished basically. But everything happens for a reason. I'm glad I kind of missed the opportunity of, obviously, Man City England very highly regarded, and again, I was complacent. That's the bottom line. I always worked hard, but I didn't do more. I could have always done more. So I think that kind of not regret because again, I wouldn't be here if I didn't have that, but I know if I could live life again, I would be playing Champions League or Premier League now. So...

Jake [00:18:15] So you, let me get that clear, you are saying the mindset you now have, if you had this mindset 10 years ago, you know you'd be at the very, very top.

Reece [00:18:23] Yeah, without a shadow of a doubt. But I didn't, so this is one of those things. But at the same time, if I didn't have, like I said, if I didn't have that failure or that slight regret, I wouldn't have been able to achieve the level I'm at now. So it works in roundabouts.

Damian [00:18:41] Simple. I think that you're a real inspiration for a lot of young people that aspire for the lifestyle that you have and all the success that you've achieved, Reece. Do you think it would be helpful for them to see the struggle as opposed to the outcome? You know, like the idea of a lot of kids love playing and the idea of going to the fancy parties, but what you're saying is the real success stories of those that love the struggle, the grind staying behind when nobody else is there. Do you think that that would be a powerful message for you to share?

Reece [00:19:18] Yeah. And I think the problem of social media is now everyone shows the outcome. I think if people have followed me, I've got like quite as much as it's not a huge audience. It's a very, like, interactive audience. They engage very often, I say, and I think that's because I've showed the hard struggle for power, and now I wanna show the cost, for example. I don't really receive too much jealousy or hate because I think people have seen, "Oh, he's been doing this for 6 years every single day." So like, even though typically, if someone wants to show a car the black fuck off, basically, but in this situation, if you, like I said, if you're one of my core audience, you're like, "Oh, you know what? He's been Moslem grind in every single day. He deserves." That's the outcome, and I make that clear as well. I'm like, "OK. Well, these things don't mean anything, but these are just a by- product of you seeking excellence." And as I said about seeking failure, etc., I actually say to my staff, "When things are going too well, that means we're not, you know, we're not doing enough." I expect things to break at least every two years. And when I say break, I mean almost catastrophic, like, you know, lose a lot of money type of break. We're probably gonna feature that this year because the White House is at full capacity, so we've got to switch to our house, and I'm sure there are gonna be some inefficiencies there. But I feel like yeah, I actually look forward to things breaking because it shows that there's a

new round of growth left in store. I think if you get to a point, and you feel like it's too easy or, you know, it's not breaking enough, you need to probably have to think, you know, "What's next? Is this career for me?" Or if you're content, that's great, too, because no one's bill or even likes are kind of always growing.

Damian [00:20:55] So can I ask you about your dad? Because he intrigues me when I was reading some of the stuff around, and your meant reference said he had this idea, "Well, you can be successful in Bolton" and sort of instilled that can-do mentality in you. And he seemed an important figure in your football career.

Reece [00:21:14] Yeah.

Damian [00:21:15] Could you tell us a bit about his influence?

Reece [00:21:17] He's, he's an intelligent guy. I always say, like, obviously, he's doing OK in life. I mean, you know, he's got a decent job, but I always say, "I'm what he could have been" because he's very intelligent. He's very lethargic, and he always uses the bare minimum to keep him at that level, which obviously is great. And he's a very content person, so he's very happy. And that's the main thing, but I kind of like his natural intelligence or like he sees things quite clearly, like he can connect dots quite well. And I kind of had that work with design consistency to really go to the next level. So he's definitely an important figure in my life. He's very calm, relaxed, and like I said, he sees things with clarity. So if I ever need to speak to someone, which is quite rare, but he's always got a good outlook on the situation, even though he might not be within the fashion bodies. He can observe what's going on and...

Damian [00:22:14] 'Cause that's a key that we were interested in in terms of who is your mentor now, and he obviously seemed to do that when you were in the world of football. But who mentors you now that you're in a completely new world of fashion?

Reece [00:22:27] No one, to be honest, because of the level the businesses are and the way the business is structured. Like I said, it's, it's privately owned, and there's no investors. So typically, we should reach, you know, 20 something million in sales of a share and in... And typically in those circumstances, you'd have an investment or you'd have a CEO. And it's still... Those things are still me, so to ask for advice from people who are in like almost a new world of an e-commerce brand, which is only 5-10 years old.

You've got the boohoos of the sport, obviously, publicly-traded huge businesses and way bigger than MDV, which are a completely different model. They sell cheaper volume clothes. They're slightly more expensive and slightly less volume-based. So there's no actual business model, which I can, you know, pick nuggets with. My is... My mentor is read in all, observe, and, you know, I observe failures more so than successes because most of the failures, they follow the same pattern whereas everyone's success is slightly different. So I just avoid traps. I say, "OK. Well, this person's done this. This person's done this. And they both struggle from it."

Damian [00:23:38] So what's the, what's the big trap that you've observed that the companies have fallen into?

Reece [00:23:44] Complacency, always, you know, letting your product become at that list, is always the biggest flaw. Running before you can walk. People will try and chase growth figures or revenue figures, which is pure vanity, without really focusing on the bottom line. Go into wholesale is a problem, too, because you, obviously, have the payment terms

issues, you know, typically they're paying 90 to 120 days. But you've fronted the stock immediately, so that creates cash flow, cash flow issues and selling to people, selling part of your business to people who don't understand your vision and see it as a cash girl. So, again, I've not done any of those things yet. There might be a possibility of some of those things, albeit in different circumstances to all other people who've done that. But yeah, I just spot traps, and that's... Probably, the biggest advice I could give anyone is like don't watch whatever people are doing in terms of when they look successful. You can admire their approach, but unless you wanna emulate that business, which is also a bad idea.

Just emulate their approach, but spot people's failures. And that'll kind of give you a path to, you know, a decent kind of incline.

Damian [00:24:54] And you speak about the fashion industry with such a mature head, and it sounds like you have such a clear path of where you see MDV going and what the plan is. Are you saying that without a mentor, all of this has really come from listening, reading, watching other people? Because if that is what, how you've done it, then really this is open to anyone, isn't it? If you have the right mindset.

Reece [00:25:16] Yeah, absolutely. Being observant is the key. Yeah. I always am a very normal person, but I just, I just observe more. And obviously, consistency and dedication. So I always say, "I'm, you know, on Instagram and social read this book. But how many people read it?" Like I'll read a book, write notes, read the notes several times and read the same books several times just to take in because you can't take anything in first time unless you've gotten an elite (inaudible). I don't think I do. So, yeah, everyone can do what I've done. I hear people say, "Oh, you had football start money, but people forget that bonds, they are always on pay as you play. At Wigan, I was there for 6 months, so it wasn't like I own millions, you know? I mean, I started the brand of fifteen thousand, which I do appreciate is more than most, but I think you don't need that much. What you need to do is buy a product which is exceptional and flip basically. You know, you buy something for 5 pounds and sell it for 20 pounds, and it's a simple process. And make sure that when you obviously accumulate the money, you don't spend it frivolously. But yeah, absolutely. I think what I've done is open to everybody. There's no shadow of a doubt. It's just a case of, like I said, being disciplined, consistent, have a path, spot the traps that other people are doing, have your own identity and understand as well. If that's not your natural calling, don't force it. I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs my age and younger or whatever age, I guess, they will see that someone is an entrepreneur, he seems to be making money and looks cool, and kind of force themselves down that avenue, which isn't meant for them.

Like I always loved fashion, like I was wearing things which people, when I said Muncie, it was like, "What's this guy wearing to training?" Like I shouldn't have worn it, but that was me, you know, that's my personality. So that was my natural coordinate. And I'm not sure I'd understand it if I haven't worked too hard to kind of get it into my head, so... But then I see people trying to do fashion, and it's not that natural corny. It just looks cool. So I'd say, like, "If you wanna be an entrepreneur or be anything, don't do it because you see someone that is being successful from it. Do it because it's your natural understanding.

You seem to get things that people don't, then went down. Otherwise, you're staying...

Jake [00:27:25] And we haven't even sort of approached the topic of bravery either. I think to do anything, you know, I think to run out on a football field in a Man City shirt, when you stand as a teenager in the first team with some of the names you've mentioned, that takes bravery. But it's a different kind of bravery to go and set up a fashion label when you knew that the football industry was gonna be snobby and sniffy about it because for some reason, football loves to put footballers in a box. Right? And if you do anything outside that box, we see it all the time in the media any footballer with any interest, apart from playing

football, it's used as a stick to beat them with when they, when they struggle as a player, right? Which for a start is a mindset that needs to be changed. But also, one thing that I love hearing from you is the bravery to go and do this at a time when you, when you knew that was gonna come your way. And I think so many people listening to this podcast, either young guys in their late teens like you were when you had this idea or people in their mid to late 50s who've always wanted to do something and have always used an excuse as to why they haven't, the one thing is just to do it, to be brave and to just go for it, isn't it?

Reece [00:28:28] Yeah, I think fear is what holds the majority of the world back. It's the scare. It's the, this is the fear of people laughing at you if it doesn't work or your parents saying, "I told you so." All of those types of things. And I guess when I started the brand, I just, as I said, I went to Doncaster, took a huge pay cut. I still had two cars and lived in the city centre. So the money I was earning was literally just maintaining, you know, everything in that head. I had nothing to lose. It was like I said to myself, "Well, you've got two choices: you get back to the Premier League or this business goes to the top." Obviously, I was trying to do both simultaneously, but I knew that if I failed, all of that stuff goes, and that's obviously gonna hurt anyone's ego, especially male ego if I was to lose the cause, which I like or the lifestyle that I was having. So for me, it was just like, "Well, I've got no choice. You either succeed or you fail." And I didn't actually care if I failed in the sense of like I could deal with, like I said before, rejection is a common thing in football. So I could deal with that. And I knew that at some point of my life, I would be successful again. So I had that same mentality today. Like, I would take risk that most people won't because I don't care about me fail, and obviously, I care about my staff and their well-being. But if I was to lose it all tomorrow, I know in 3 years I would have it all back. So I think that's the difference.

Jake [00:29:49] (inaudible) believe, don't you?

Damian [00:29:49]  Yeah, I do.

Jake [00:29:49] That's brilliant.

Damian [00:29:50] But I'm intrigued as to that move from Manchester City to Doncaster, with due respect to both clubs, that must have felt like a failure. You'd set off to achieve the first team spot at Manchester City, and now you're there. How important was that quite public failure in terms of then stripping you of the ego and giving it up that courage not to fear?

Reece [00:30:20] Yeah, it was a reality check. And you had to look at the facts. And that was, that was a decline, and there was no way, two ways about it. So, yeah, you know, like I said, that's a huge public. You've gone from England Man City debut to Doncaster. I think it was. So it was, it was definitely a failure. And again, it was just another failure to the... it's like you punch back when you're a footballer, so eventually you become numb to it.

Jake [00:30:48] What do you mean by that, Reece? Because looking from the outside then again, we've not seen the struggle. So it looks like you had an unchecked path of success of... You've gone to Manchester City, made the first team. You've got a national representative on us. What were the failures that you described before that?

Reece [00:31:09] I guess, when I was at Man City, I had one opportunity, but there was other player who wasn't, I guess this is biased for me to say as good as me, but then he would have more opportunities. But again, I don't blame the club at all because if I look

back with again, more mature eyes, as I said, if you're 19, you're driving cars, here and there you go to the clubs. You're hearing about women. Why would you give this youngster more opportunities overseas? His mind is not in the right place. And I completely understand in terms of ability. I was, you know, one of the best in my age group. And I think Trippier actually said something recently, like he was the reason he left. I was the reason he left. And obviously, he's a fantastic footballer and doing great things. But he was, he was obviously in a different headspace. To me, he was more determined. That was his sole focus. He wasn't with cars, clothes and women, and that's why he's successful in, you know, playing for Atletico Madrid now. So, yeah, I think there were a lot of doors closed, and maybe it was probably... No, I wouldn't change anything. It was my own fault because I didn't play the game in order to let those doors be open. I was kind of like I always said to myself, and I remember saying it to myself as a teenager, "As long as I do my thing on the pitch, all of this stuff doesn't matter," which is true. That theory is true.

But football is not that simple. It's a political game. And obviously, that was a blind spot that I didn't have at that time. I understand now as a 28-year-old. But it's a political game, so I should've played the game more so.

Damian [00:32:38] So how would you deal with a teenage version of you now if they came to join your business?

Reece [00:32:45] In terms of...

Damian [00:32:47] So if you had a young boy coming in that you could say he had obvious talent and was maybe making sales and really adding value to the business, but there was a question about that commitment or how focused they were. How would he deal with you?

Reece [00:33:02] So I have people like that in the business, actually, and I encourage that flamboyancy 'cause that was what people tried to strip out from me. But sometimes the case I put an arm around, which people didn't do to me and say, "Look, I understand you're young. I've been there too, you know, go out and drink bananas sundae. And, you know, I mean, you know, don't come into work and let people who are more old than you and senior look at you and go, "Oh, well, Reece is letting him act that way." So is this the case of, you know, don't try and drive that flamboyancy or, you know, their natural character out of them 'cause that's what football does to a lot of people. But you've just got to, you know, just give them a little bit of advice and pat on the back. When I was at Man City, I remember I was, I think, at point ex 6, and I had to see 63 then at a Panamera, which is insane for a 19-20-year-old. It's like stupid. Why, why would you do that? I would never advise someone to do that. But I remember the time the senior players were loving me. They were just like, you know, "Oh, yeah, you know, that cause with kid" or "Keep, keep doing that." And then I think to myself, and now I'm older man, why would you not tell me not to do that? And that part of me thinks something, "Were they really my friends, you know?" I mean, because if I saw someone doing that at 19 years old, with the water at their feet, I would say, "Look, hold part that for a little bit. Just focus and you can get that in the future."

Jake [00:34:13] That reminds me of Warren Joyce, who was the reserve team culture Manchester United, you said, made that very point to the young players there. Then he'd say when the senior players invite you to come into the Jacuzzi after training, they're not doing it 'cause they like your company, they're doing it because they're eradicating you as a threat to them.

Jake [00:34:31] Correct.

Reece [00:34:32] Yeah, that's absolutely it. So I still speak to some of the lads, and obviously, I don't, I don't bring up that stuff because it's in the past. But I do think to myself, "You didn't look after me like you should have been" or I thought if I was in your position identifying someone's type talent, I would wanna nurture them to make sure they maximise it. I think you're right. I think it was a case of like, "Let's let this young boy dig his grave." And I did. So it's my fault.

Jake [00:34:57] Message that I think Reece for football is because it's kind of OK for you because, as you've just said, you're looking at sounds of 20 million plus for MDV this year. But there are lots of young people similar age to you now who did have that, did make the same mistakes and are now daily regretting it because they are having to graft in a job they don't like, and they're seeing their former team-mates on the telly representing England and things. So there is a message, I think, for football, isn't there, that they need to look after young players better. There needs to be more guidance. But also, I think along with that, there has to be an acceptance that everyone's an individual, and if you have someone who's an individual like you, then if you can get the best out of them, football is a better place for a lot. I would say when you speak to Reece, the business head he has on, and Damien and the drive and the ambition and the single-minded determination, of course, he's calm now because he's a bit older, and he always does. But I would sense that football will be a better, more rounded industry if someone like Reece was in it.

Damian [00:35:56] Very much yeah because talent wasn't an excuse for you, was it? It was you had the talent. So it's all the control of all aspects of work ethic, commitment, individuality 'cause what you're describing wasn't particularly nurtured.

Reece [00:36:12] Yeah, absolutely. Obviously, when I was growing up, like I said, social media was not prominent. Then you had Facebook and that was like, you know, it wasn't as public as Instagram is now, and the pressure of being a young footballer then was like, you know, have, have a nice, decent pair of trainers and maybe, maybe a little Gucci belt or bag. And now I look and, you know, obviously, the teenagers are earning much more than I did when I was a teenager, naturally because of inflation. But the pressure for them now is having a fifty thousand pound watch and, you know, Range Rover at 19 and a big house and six in Japan T-shirts. The pressure is real, and if you don't have that, I can understand as a teenage boy that you feel inadequate. And I think, you know, senior football managers need to also understand that pressure because I felt as a kid and, like I said, it's been amplified now. So I don't ever judge these kids 'cause, like I said, I was that kid once. But, you know, when you've got young boys with diamonds right in there, kids, you're asking for trouble, to be honest. And that's obviously a huge distraction, as I...

Jake [00:37:14] You weren't broken by it, right? In some ways, you were made by it. But there are lots of people that were broken by it, and that's, that's the issue, you know, that those are the people that you have to maybe think about, I think.

Reece [00:37:23] Yeah. I mean, I played with a lot of those people who, you know, who no longer play or play at a lower level who are highly talented. And I think people just need to think long term. As much as when I was young, I was doing those things. As I said, my, my unbreakable confidence, I knew that somehow, someway this would be nothing to me in a sense of like the expense. But I think some young boys, it's like football is all they have, and if this doesn't work, they're in deep trouble. And what I've also witnessed is when

things start to fail or they actually spend more, they're going more nights out. They spend more on tubs they buy, more on cars, clothes, jewellery to kind of compensate for the decline in other areas, and then before you know it, they are 30 and bankrupt. And I've also got a few people who've been highly successful who I know, who are probably gonna fit that pattern also.

Jake [00:38:08] Yeah. So that coping mechanism of maybe looking for an escape from when things are going wrong. Was your coping mechanism then to throw yourself into the business?

Reece [00:38:18] Yeah. I was kind of like putting my destiny in my hands. As I said, when I was at Doncaster I think the first season I did from right back 13-14 assists, but no one talked about that. There was no... I was always thinking, if this was somebody else, that would have been like, "Oh, he's wretched." I think I did most, one of the most assists in the league, and no one talked about, and I just realised that combats, the Wigan thing as well as it's like, well, I've always been told, "Facts and numbers don't lie." But if someone's not trying to showcase those facts to the wider public, no one sees them unless they do deep research. So with football, it was the case. I mean, with the businesses, it was the case, so we need to put this destiny back in my hands because when there are numbers on a screen in business, there's no hiding place, you don't mean that. They're your numbers and if you wanna showcase those numbers, they are facts. Whereas if you're a footballer, you know, your own stats, it looks a bit weird, you know? I mean, so it was kind of like, "OK. Let me put this, the destiny back in my hands to control my own fate." If football works fantastic, you're gonna break down the ceilings, I'm happy. If not, hopefully again, businesses, probably. Even to be a successful business after 5 years, this is probably harder than to be a footballer at, you know, football league level, to be honest. But it was just a case of like I can't have someone tell me yes or no. I need to be able to put in the work, see the direct correlation and resource. And if it fails, it's also completely my fault.

Whereas in football, if, if you succeed, you do need a helping hand. You need a manager to believe in you. You need to play in a good team. A lot of things have to go for you. And if you fail, it's still your fault, you know? I mean, obviously, a lot of people would say, "The manager didn't pick me" or "I played in a crap team, so there were too many moving variables."

Damian [00:39:53] So you were sort of unfairly judged as a footballer in terms of people judged the external behaviours and made the judgement about you as a person. And you're now in an industry where people are making judgements about your brand and your club. So that seems like you've taken control of that. So how would you describe your business to somebody that was looking at it? What are the behaviours or the image that you would want people to, to describe your business as?

Reece [00:40:23] As a model or as what it was?

Damian [00:40:26] As the brand.

Reece [00:40:27] It's obviously a fashion brand. I'd say we always dictate the trends, high quality all the time. So I'm very particular about fabrics, how things fit, price point presentation. So very clean image. Minimal, affordable. And then we release every month, so kind of like there's always a new flow of product, so... My favourite business is Zara. So I kind of take Zara's business ethics to a degree. As I said before, who's the best? How can you make your own, you know, stamp and blueprint on that? And that's what I try and do, so constant flow of release is kind of a clean mass market audience at affordable

prices and good quality. So I've taken those fundamentals and tried and kind of remixed them into... into my own identity.

Jake [00:41:17] You use this as a culture. How would you, how would you describe Maniere de Voir away from the customers? What do you want it to be for the people that are with you?

Reece [00:41:24] The stuff? They know... Well, if you work with me, you know, I'm hard at work because, like I always say to people, "If I said I like 6 months ago, don't assume I like it in another 6 months then 'cause I always do that." But I can't say, "Oh, this glass was great." And then 6 months, "It's not good enough no more." So it's the kind of constant improvement in every single area from, from the minimal details to the really big things, and...

Jake [00:41:49] Yeah. And you have massively backed your own opinion, right? Because if you're saying that sort of thing, you have to really believe what you say.

Reece [00:41:56] I like to listen to everyone for sure. I think it's important to get over people's feedback, and there's been plenty of times as they've, they've said things I've missed on my goal, you know. That's a good idea. I didn't think of that. But at the same time obviously, I have to trust my instincts. So when my instinct says something to me like "Don't do this," in the past, I've actually ignored it because I wanted to listen to people so heavily, and I've obviously read in books like, you know, don't be the smartest person in the room and listen to, listen to everyone. They might see something you don't. But I actually got to a stage when I was listening too much and got and then cut on my own instinct, and things wouldn't work. So now I've kind of learnt that equilibrium and trust in that inner voice. And if there's a bit of doubt in a voice, then I listen to all the people, so... I've found that balance now. But yeah, it's definitely a high performance culture. I mean, I don't like people working overtime. I think you can get, you know, everything during a working day. If you wanna do more after work in your own time, perfect. That's obviously for, for their self-development. But attention to detail is, is my thing and making sure the low things don't go by. We say, "What got me there in a start is what keeps me there," so whether it's a website tweek or, you know, the smallest of things, I'll pick it up and say, "We need to improve that." And that was, that will never change, I don't think.

Jake [00:43:11] We're nearly out of time. Before we get to the very end, I have some quickfire questions. I'd just like you to do one, one thing for me. We have such a wide variety of people that will listen to this podcast. It's big in the football world. So there will be young footballers, listening to this conversation right now. I'd love you to just send a message to them based on the experiences that you learnt, first of all.

Reece [00:43:33] Think long term. Hold off on, you know, the clothes, cars and jewellery, which, you know, give you short-term satisfaction because you can have that when you're playing in the Premier League every week and, you know, hopefully playing for your national team. Think you can always do more. So, you know, when you finish training and then, you know, you might have a goal coming round or you might wanna go shopping, just think, you know, put an extra two hours perhaps in that cross and shoe, and that'll pay off in the long run. And yeah, just have a, have a... Oh, this is one thing I didn't do, I didn't think big enough, so my goal was to play in the Premier League, and I did that, and then that was it basically. My goal was finished. So whatever your dream is today, if that's to play in the Premier League, have it one step bigger. Say I wannna play in the Champions League because then your application on the day-to-day basis completely changes

because, you know, being a Premier League footballer and a Champs League footballer is completely different. So aim one step bigger than you think that's physically possible in that moment today.

Jake [00:44:29] That's your message to a young player. What about your message to someone who wants to do what you've done? They wanna set up a brand or a business. They have to make a brave decision. They need to... They need to go for it, but they're not sure whether it's the right time, is it ever the right time. Based on your approach to life of 100 per cent responsibility and no excuses to people listening to this now who want to do something of their own, what, how would you speak to them for the next minute or so?

Reece [00:44:58] You mentioned about time, and there's never a right time. So that's one thing they need to understand firstly is like timing is never perfect. You have to make the timing perfect. So, start, I think I said earlier in the podcast is to make sure that you have a natural calling. Don't do it because your friends do it or you see someone else do it. Do it because it's, you know, something inside your heart or your instinct's saying "Do it." And then don't be scared to fail. Actually, invite the failure. When you lose money or make a mistake, embrace that because that means you can grow. And don't be scared to fail as well, because I saw like people like, as I said, are so worried about what their friends or family are gonna say or they're gonna laugh or say, "Oh, that didn't quite work out." But that's just human nature. Unfortunately, I think people are just preying on... Not all, but most people are preying on someone's downfall regardless. So you've got to embrace that feeling because that's what makes you successful.

Damian [00:45:52] So the quickfire questions race. What are the three non-negotiable behaviours that you and the people around you have to buy into?

Reece [00:46:01] No excuses. Everything's possible. Dream bigger than you think is possible.

Jake [00:46:15] What advice would you give to a teenager, Reece, just starting out?

Reece [00:46:19] In football or?

Jake [00:46:21] Yeah, I think just the 12-year-old you. If you could speak to the 12-year- old you again, what's the one thing you would say?

Reece [00:46:33] I'd say, "Aim to be the best in the world." That's my approach to this day. I said before about a footballer, if they think they can be a Premier League, be a Champions League footballer. But if I was to just give it to myself or someone at 12 who's kind of got, you know, so much... They're so malleable as they aim to be run out of mercy, every single day that has to be a goal because if you fall short, you're still in a good place. So do your best in a world mentality.

Damian [00:47:02] Are you happy?

Reece [00:47:03] Yeah, of course. Of course. I always say to people, "If I was to have a day sad, I'd be very ungrateful because obviously I'm blessed to be born in the UK with many opportunities, and there are people who would kill for these opportunities." So I've got my family, and obviously, I've done OK in life. So for me to be sad would be very, very ungrateful. So, yeah, absolutely. I'm very lucky to be in the position I am.

Jake [00:47:32] How important is legacy to you?

Reece [00:47:35] That's a good question, to be honest, because I've gone through phases. So I think legacy in terms of me as a human, I don't really care because this is cynical. But when you die, no one really cares after they saw a centre in any way. But legacy in terms of people that I can touch, in terms of like maybe they don't directly relate to my name, but whether that's given opportunity or, you know, helping, you know, underprivileged kids succeed, that's definitely important as I get older. But me in a selfish aspect, I don't really care about what people think of me once I'm set and done because I've, I've again studied people's failures. I see what they talk, how they talk about Steve Jobs in such a negative light or Elon Musk, the geniuses of the world anyway, who actually changed the world. Nicola Teslas of the world. They don't care after they're gone. They just take what they give them, and then they forget about them. So I think as long as my family, the people I love and then underprivileged people who have no chance to succeed without your help, as long as I can help them, I'm happy.

Damian [00:48:38] What's your one golden rule for high-performance life?

Reece [00:48:45] Complacency kills. I've said before, I forget I have one tattoo. Wish I don't have a tattoo would be that because I think a lot of people in life become successful. But to stay there is one thing, and to do it for over 5 years is excellence, over 10 years is genius. So I think, you know, it's like if you're complacent, you can get there and you'll fall by the wayside. So you've got to be complacent, consistent and do the things that you started, do things that you did started to the, to the end, and I think Renaut was the prime example of that. Till this day, 35 years old, he hasn't changed from when he was 17 years old. And that's why he'll probably play for another 2-3 years. He's consistent, dedicated, and he still wants to be the best of them all even though his body's saying "No." So that's admirable.

Jake [00:49:34] Charity is the true barometer of success. Final question. I'm interested to hear the answer to this one. In 10 years' time, where is Maniere de Voir? What is it?

Reece [00:49:45] It won't be in my hands. That's for sure. So whoever decides to buy it, that's their decision. But I can say in two to, two and a half to five years' time, it will be, it would be a very, very big online fashion player. I think the revenue will be in excess of 50... the 50 to 100 million mark. Yeah, but I don't... I always say that this is a guess, a good tip for... I don't overstep my mark. I always, I always say, "Our tough luck is 100 million pound evaluation." And of course, I'll be probably 30 by the time that happens. But that was my mark for MDV. That was the aim I laways said I would take it to, and I don't wanna overstep that. So once that arises, then I broaden horizons and see what I can, if I can join in over 1 percent...

Jake [00:50:37] Money, is that how you judge success?

Reece [00:50:40] No, no. Turnover is irrelevant. It's profit. So when I say a hundred million, it's the percentage of...

Jake [00:50:45] But is that how you judge success profit or is it about happiness and...?

Reece [00:50:50] In business, it's purely profit because why would you be in business if you didn't wanna make money. In personal life, not so. I always say, "How much money you have and how happy you are don't correlate at all." I think happiness comes from your

thoughts, your thoughts, you know, daily and your perspective of life. And as I said, my job as a business owner is to make the business money and obviously, this stuff when it's successful. That's just my job. In my personal life, I like cars, so that was, that's almost like a hobby, so to speak. But I don't actually care about those, you know, fancy things. If you can have them, why not? But if I had to, you know, go live at my mom's house and have a normal car, it'd still be cool because my mind's working, my thoughts working, and I know that. And I think of what I can do if I approach it correctly, so... And as I said, I've got my family, I've got good friends. I'm saying I understand what's important, and that's what makes people happy, not the money. Money is just a by-product of, as I said, being excellent. So that's my job. This as simple as that. Being a business owner is my job. It's not my... It's not my life. It's my job.

Damian [00:51:54] And I love that poem. And like Camelot, many years ago, did research on lottery winners and happiness levels, and they found that when you win the lottery, your happiness spikes massively in the short term. But he called that's where you were within 12 months. If you were a cynic, you'll be back to being just a very wealthy cynic. If you're, if you're happy, you'll be a wealthy happy person. And it seems like you've already discovered that.

Reece [00:52:17] Yeah, just from reading, as I said, I understand that if you're a positive person and you can have a can do attitude, you should be relatively happy, and you understand what's real and what's fake, and you know what's here to stay and what's not. You'll be OK. I think you just have to earn, you know, a good living. Obviously, London's super expensive. So a good living in London is different to a good living in the north, but I think there was another statistic. I think if you earn over one hundred thousand pounds, you're as happy as someone who earns a million pounds, I think.

Jake [00:52:44] (inaudible) the figure. Seventy thousand dollars and sort of all that translates houseboat. Hey, you're right. It's... He has no discernible impact. A million of pounds doesn't make you ten times happier.

Reece [00:52:56] No. And I think what people don't understand about footballers is that they earn obviously a lot of money, but their standard of living is significantly more. The people they're surrounded with are also significantly wealthy. So they are almost in a delusion, and they don't know what's real and what's not because that's all they know. So when they have to come out of that world, that's when they get depressed because they're like, oh, obviously they've got football friends who, you know, may have gone back home. And if they're from abroad or you're not in that environment that change your room, you're stuck with real world and real people, and that's extremely hard to deal with. And I think it's the same for people who are business owners and superrich. Their circles change, and they become surrounded by people who are all in that kind of the La La Land. And for a while, a person just keeps my stuff. I'll let you stay indoors most of the time. All my friends are really normal at San Francisco because I don't wanna get caught up. And that's when I start. You think you start to become unhappy. So I think people looking at the footballers again, they're super, super talented people and elite athletes, most of them. But they also have a big disadvantage in that sense, it's like they can... If you're a normal person, so to speak, you can day ago, I know that she loves you. If you're a footballer, can you do that? Probably not. And also, when you get to the top and you have to fall or if you're earning hundreds of thousands a week and then you go to zero, how do you deal with that?

Whereas if you've got a normal job, and you're, you know, slowly progress, and every single year you can progress, 2 year, 70 years old or retired as a footballer. 30, high, then

straight to the low. So people just need to understand, like don't, don't judge people until you walk, you know, in their shoes. I think, that's the key.

Jake [00:54:33] Listen, thank you so much for spending the time to be with us today. I think you've really put the message across that even in a successful life like yours and it's absolutely successful to play for City, to have a professional football career, very few people manage that, and then to go and set up a multi-million-pound fashion brand. Yet it hasn't been necessarily easy, and it absolutely hasn't just fallen your way. I'm so pleased I've met you because looking at your tweets, I've sometimes thought to myself, like, "Is this all for real, like this sort of, um, this belief that he has in his own ability and the fact that he is going to get there?" You sometimes get the impression on social media that someone feels they have to put that message out there. But sitting and talking to you for half an hour, I absolutely believe that you don't take excuses, and you don't make excuses, and you take full responsibility for every single part of your life, which I think is hugely healthy mindset. And when you say Maniere de Voir will be a hundred-million-pound ton of a business in the next 5 years, it probably will be because you've decided it so. And I, I get the impression you're the kind of person that will impose your will on that business and will make it successful. So thank you for your time! And I hope that that was really interesting and inspirational for lots of our listeners.

Reece [00:55:44] Yeah. Thank you for having me! It's been a pleasure.

Jake [00:55:47] Thank you so much! It's been really so interesting. So interesting, I think. Thank you.

Reece [00:55:52] I hope, I hope that...