Mauricio Pochettino

He’s a man who creates a real family atmosphere wherever he coaches.

He has won trophies at Espanyol and PSG as a player, but he’s now best known as a top-class manager with spells at Espanyol and Southampton before he took Tottenham to finals and their best league finish in 25 years, playing football as effective as it was impressive.

Hear his stories of inspiring people, selecting players and his football philosophy. Listen to Mauricio Pochettino tell you his secrets to living a more high-performance life.

TRANSCRIPT

Mauricio Pochettino

JAKE: Well, Mauricio, first of all, welcome to the podcast.

MAURICIO: Thank you very much.

JAKE: Thank you so much, letting us into your home to have this conversation.  It’s hugely appreciated.  When I say high performance, what do you think of?

MAURICIO: High performance is, uh, to try to be closer with, uh, to be the best, uh, give your best, uh, be ahead of everything that happen around you, um, be with the best people that you can find. Or being, being curious. That is so important. Um, not accept that everything that you are doing is good. Always to put in question yourself. I don't know, uh, I can talk during few minutes, uh, high performance is, um, is always, um, trying and trying and trying to improve to learn.  And be xxx to be in, in always in communication with the best people trying to, to learn and be xxx ready.

JAKE: Let's talk about Marcelo Bielsa.  He came into your life at quite a young age. How much of an impact did he have on you?  I suppose I'm wondering whether you grew up with this relentless high performance mindset, wanting to be the best and to get the best from people around you, or whether it was the influence of people like Bielsa that opened the door for you, showed you the way?

MAURICIO: Yes I think Marcelo play a very important, uh, game for, for us.  All the player that were under his management always, uh, I think, um, like or not like the, uh, his method or not, of philosophy, I think, eh, that we how  you introduce the podcast, say about to, I think, they can, um, inspire us. I think that was the most, the most important thing.  One the xxx for him that he put the seed in my brain, uh, to try to find my way in what I love to do is to play football and, and then to, to be a coach.  That I think was the most important. Because, uh, I am not a follower of him or, or I am not doing what he's doing, because it’s impossible because he, he is unique, but yes, he can inspire myself. I'm trying to find my way.  I’m trying to create my own way.

DAMIAN:     I found it interesting Mauricio that you recount that he came to your house when you were 14, and got you up the middle of the night to uh, to recruit you.  And then he watched you for five minutes in one performance and decided that he wanted you to be part of, to be part of his team.  What was it, you think, that he recognized in you in that five minutes that made him want to invest this time with you?

MAURICIO: Yes, I think I was wonder after I was successful, but for sure they appear, maybe like me, maybe xxx histories, see maybe similar, but maybe 90, 99% of this, uh, situation never been successful like I was.  I guess, maybe, no?  In this moment, what are you going to do when you are at two o'clock in the morning in a house in the middle of nowhere in a town like Murphy?  That you knock the door and two people wake up, and say, “Oh, we want to see your, your son.”  And what do you need to do is to, um, use your, uh, solution like to, to be very nice and kind. I said, Oh, what nice, nice legs. It's going to be the best centre backo player in the world, and then xxx xxx.  You know, we, we, we explained the history that they're very successful, but the histories are not successful. But it's important to know that Bielsa wasn't alone.  Bielsa was with xxx.  xxx for me uh, is another very important person like Marcelo, you know?  Uh, because he was the director of the Academy, and he was very, it was a great character. He was a great player, xxx xxx.  I remember always xxx say to me one day, xxx, learn myself and us, how win was a winner.  All that that situation happened.  What happened because a group of player, um, Marcelo was a great character, but was ur, with one of the best, uh, I think characters and personality that I knew in football, like xxx.  It's like, uh, when people talk about eh, uh, myself, no?  But I am not alone.  xxx xxx Stoney's, Mickey's different, different people that make you looks better.  And some, and for me they are so important. Like I am important and maybe now I am talking with you, but um, today, um, I think, uh, football is changing.  Like the rules are changing, and in the model change, the, way to work change. The group of the coaching staff change, um, the player need to be managed for in a different way. Now you need that, the group, the coaching staff become the leader. Of course it's different in face, different character inside. But uh, now, um, we try to change that mentality that is only one name one face.  Now is the leadership become, uh, through the group, of this stuff. If not today, the the player need to feel that xxx is the leader too, not only the gaffa, but xxx the same.  Um, you know, all the people, um, need to create that um, way.  Because the player need to to are completely different, and, and you need to evolve. And today the, the society and the, the young player are living in a different world.

DAMIAN:     Reading your own accounts of, ah, of, of Jorge Griffa, you spoke about him being a father figure, and he was somebody that when you moved away at 14, he, you described that he helped you as much as a person, as much as a player.

MAURICIO: Yes. I think was.  They were ahead of the time.  I think Jorge Griffa and Marcelo xxx were 20, 30 year ahead of the different clubs.  I know it was, was, make me think, uh, I was very lucky to meet these people that make me better player, but a great person, uh, with a great mentality.  Of course my father, my family, eh, were there, and helped me to, to be the man that I am today.  But of course, uh, how important are the people that spend xxx hour with you in the training ground, and so important. That is why the people are key, and you need to do, have lucky in xxx people that can help you to achieve your dreams, uh, in your professional side, and of course, like a person too.  Because, uh, I think, uh, can be compatible. I think that is the most important when you can see a very nice professional with a great talent, uh, very humble people and great people, eh, I think that is the most, um, for me is the most uh, value that you can find in a, in a professional.

JAKE: So when you talk about football changing and people changing, in the modern game how do you inspire, um, a 19 year old who earns lots of money, plays in a beautiful stadium, trains in a beautiful training, ground, travels everywhere first-class - their attention to detail or their attention span is short these days - as a manager, as a group of managers and leaders, including as the rest of the team, how, what's the trick to getting into those minds of modern, younger people?

MAURICIO: First of all, you need to know the young lad that you have in front.  Because all came from different background, and you need to inspire for sure xxx in different way that you are going to inspire xxx, or xxx with different age.  When you know and you have, um, the capacity, like a group, to xxx five, the profile of the player to know every single situation that happened in the past when they were a child, where they grow?  Uh, they came from Brazil, they came from Ireland, from Korea, I think you can know to inspire all in this in the same way, and the circumstance are so important because all are in a different circumstance, in the moment that you are going to to face them and to talk with them and um, the reality change, uh, every day and you need to be updated every day about what, what is going on inside them.  And, …

JAKE: How do you do that?

MAURICIO: But that is the key.

JAKE: Do you talk to them a lot?

MAURICIO: That is why that xxx we spend more than twelve hour on the training ground, and how important is, eh, not only my closest staff, if not all the staff, I would xxx to think that when we are write to Espanyol or when we are write to Southampton, or to Tottenham was to work with the staff, with the club staff.  Because the club, the stuff they need to understand us - what, how we are, how we need to work, and we need to listen them, how they love to work or the xxx that they have, you know, because they come from different way to work, and we need to centralize and to try to create our own philosophy. You need to create your own philosophy. If not, it's impossible because the kit man, or the chef or the physio or the doctor, like the assistant manager, or the manager, I think we need to believe and to build our own way. If not, if we believe in different way to work or to do the things we are going to crush in some point.  And the message that is going to arrive to the player is going to be completely different.  And then when the weakness arrive and when the problem arrive, that is going to make you to be a strong and stick with your ideas, because always happened.  11 players xxx play are a strong mentality, happy, exciting and motivate and believe in everything that you are going to xxx. But the xxx are on the bench, or the player are not in the squad.  They cannot see the door open and to listen different voice.  Okay, yes, no, listen different voice, yes, but not different way to xxx the message.  And that is so important to stick with the message.  But first of all, we need all believe, and we need to be part.  The kit man need to put his ideas on the group and he need to to feel that, Oh look, my idea is so important, to believe this philosophy.  And if you can create that, this is going to be massive. That is why I think Tottenham was very successful in five year and the moment that we start to to open doors, I start to disappear, these, these magic things, you know?  That is, is is painful to see that. But, but that is, it important when, when you are successful to keep that successful is to be a strong with this, and to try to improve in this, uh, in this er…

JAKE: Right, so you keep the same approach, but you improve it. Yeah.

DAMIAN:     So what would you say then were the three non-negotiable behaviours that when you've been at Espanyol, Southampton, and Tottenham, what are the three behaviours that define your culture?

MAURICIO: Right. To be honest, I was changing, in my xxx to like a manager in 11 year.  First day I said to myself, I know I’m never going to negotiate, I’m going to be inflexible in, in all the situation that I believe that need to be in xxx. But after, with time I was, I tried to, I think cross the line to the opposite. You start to feel that you need to negotiate and you need to be flexible like in the game, you know, um, you need to be flexible. I'm no xxx, and I think now I am more in this another side that why not to negotiate? Well, not to be flexible?  I think all the xxx are different, and I think make you to find better solution, and I think, uh, you can deal better with, uh, with the problems and, and I think, eh, eh, when I was with not experience I think that is why with no experience I was worse manager that I am today, you know?

DAMIAN:     So when did that realisation of having to be flexible, when, at what stage in your career?

MAURICIO: I think it was growing because eh, and then you met people that made you change your vision of the thing and you improve, you know?  That is why always, uh, we told, uh, like a group of, uh, our responsibility is to try to provide always the best thing to the, to the staff and to the players. I think it's, uh, uh, you need to be curious and notice if something work, believe that it's going to work forever. I think if today work, you need to think that maybe tomorrow no work, and you need to find a solution or two, both in this, in this aspect. And I think it's so important to have people with this interest in, in about to always thinking that we need to change.  We need to change, because you need to, uh, progress and you need to be better and xxx every day.

DAMIAN:     So that fits with the story that you tell when, um, when Bielsa came to Espanyol and you say that he, he made you cry because he said that you, you were in a comfort zone.

MAURICIO: Yes.

DAMIAN:     So how do you stop getting in that comfort zone now that you're a coach?  Who stops you getting too comfortable?

MAURICIO: Yes, I think it’s natural now.  I think it was a massive shock for me in this moment. Um, because you believe when you are a 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, that you are mature enough. But if you are a, people make you believe that you are God in this moment, you stop to learn and you stop to, to grow and you're stopped to get mature, in this moment I think, yes it was a massive impact for me because I say, what you're telling me I was the best centre back xxx in Spain.  But in this moment, you know, I realise, when he explained to me, I said yes, what a stupid I was, I was like, like a child - behave very immature and no behave like a man that I, I believe, I believe that I was.  And in this moment I think was a big shock. And I think was to get mature very quick, and start to think into changing the way that uh, I was thinking.

JAKE: So how do you now deal with players who you don't think are buying into your philosophy? What's your approach to them?

MAURICIO: No, I think, eh, first of all it's not my philosophy, it’s our philosophy.  And then like the stuff we build a philosophy.  I think the player, I think you need to, to work with them, for them to understand that our philosophy is to try to find the best way and the best tool for them to perform in the way that they want to performance. Because of, then is very, it's very simple the psychology in football.  I was professional player.  I played world cups. I won titles when I was a player. Um, some manager maybe didn't play football in a professional site.  I play and no one can tell me how you feel and only if you are professional player you are going to understand this player.  But the player is so simple because the player want to play, and the player want to be the best on the pitch.  And when you are the uh, the assistant manager, the coach, the xxx coach, the first, uh, the physio, the doctor, all they, they need to feel the confidence.  I need to feel the trust in the people that is close to you.  And when they player understand that you are working for them, it’s not about philosophy to play one, four, four, two or one, four, three, three, or play er more defensive in a contra attack, or dominate the game. It's about that they feel that you want the best for them. That is the most important thing. Philosophy, xxx a style of football or different ideas, I think are not important.  First of all they need to understand the player that all that we are going to do are not to punish them.  Always if we are not going to give one week off, is because want the best for them. It's not because we are one that then the xxx in life, It’s because they are professional.  If after one game, and you are going to play another game, and if you give three days off and the player go to France, to Spain, and Spain - nice life - yes.  First of all the player going to be happy because you allowed to go, and xxx but afterward they are not going to performance on the pitch.  They are going to attack you - say come on, you need to be professional. But that is difficult to create this thin line, that uh, be fair when the player needs holidays, when they player, the player need rest, but when you need to push them.  But always is for me that isn't the key, the key point and the player need to trust in you.  If some player  one day is running and now that he's doing xxx and now he's at home, they need to understand is the best for them because it's the preparation that is going to help them to performance in the way that they want in the, on the pitch.

DAMIAN:     See, there's a word that you've used twice, Mauricio, that really interests me.  So you've spoken about trust…

MAURICIO: xxx twice

DAMIAN:     Yeah, but you spoke about the importance of trust and it seems, looking at your coaching career that, that you develop a, um, a family feel around the teams that you coach, where trust is obviously essential.  I'm interested of how do you go about building trust with players that you've never met before when…

MAURICIO: Day by day, day by day.  This is the only way, with your behaviour and being natural and behave like you are.  I think that is the most important.  It’s one thing is, when we are very, uh, uh, uh, uh, [inaudible] because, uh, how we are, we are very close people, Latin people. Um, we love to hug, to shake hands, uh, to kiss.  And first day that we arrive to the training ground, 27th of May, that we sign our contract in 2014, we arrive to the restaurant we shake hands with other people. Uh, we see the staff, we shake hands, we see the chairman, we shake hands. That is respect, is to, is to be close, is to touch, is to be interest for the people that you are going to spend time working and fighting to try to win.  That is, when you touch some people, you feel the energy, you feel if he's good, if, if need love, if he's upset, if you sleep well, if you know you, you can have uh, a lot of information that is so important after to manage, because you are not going to manage a road, you are going to manage a person that you are going to ask for the best, and you are going to try to get the best to try to achieve the, all that you want.

DAMIAN:     So when you shake hands then and you sense that there is a negative energy or there is a lack of energy…

MAURICIO: Negative, positive. You feel everything.

DAMIAN:     Yeah.  So how would…

MAURICIO: You don't need to be a special person. I think we have all the capacity to feel. I think you've, you all feel if I shake hands with power, with negativity, because I like you or because I don’t like you, that is the moment to create some link.

JAKE: What do you do then if you get a negative feeling?

MAURICIO: Yes, you need to find why.  We always talk, uh, when we arrive in the morning, and you plan to do some training session.  But after a while you feel the group, you say, no we are going to change, or we are going for for some meetings and we are going to talk about some subject.  And in the moment that I feel when shake hands or when I feel the the xxx on the, on the room we change and we talk about, I don't know what.  It’s always I think it’s so important to have the plan but always be very aware about what the player needs or the team need in every single moment because football is like this.  It's about to take decision, make decision in the moment that you know how you feel. Uh, and football is about our feelings.

DAMIAN:     You speak about energy.  The other attribute that seems important for you is attitude.

MAURICIO: Yeah.

DAMIAN:     How do you define attitude?

MAURICIO: Yeah, my life is about attitude.  If you don't have attitude, you are no going to achieve nothing.

DAMIAN:     Sure, but people listening to this, like, what would you explain is attitude?

MAURICIO: Yes, I think it’s everything.  In life, it’s everything.  You can have all the talent that God provide you when you born or your mom, your xxx or your dad. But without attitude you are no going to achieve nothing. You can dream. But without attitude, nothing.  You're going to have luck if you have the right attitude. That's the way for me. So important, the altitude.

DAMIAN:     So if there was a young player listening to this podcast, how would you explain what you look for as a good attitude?

MAURICIO: Sometime we blame this young lad because of their behaviour, but we need to go farther, and to find why they behave in the way that they behave. Um, it's difficult to advise these people if you don't know from where they came, and they, why they behave in the way that they behave.  The advice, it's difficult to advise, if you don't know that people.  It's easy to say, okay, my advice is to/ you need to trust in your coach, you need to do what your, a, sport science say, you need to let, coach yourself.  You need to be nice kid.  That I seen is sissy not to, to advise, uh, the people to have a word.  But the most important is not that.  The most important is how you are going to be the trust, how you are going to build, that they are going to listen and do what you advise, that I think is the most, the most important thing to find the way to do this.  Because to give advice, it's easy, you know.  You need to teach this, this, this, uh, young lad.  And that is why sometimes it's easy to blame. He’s not ready.  Okay, he's not ready, xxx. Yeah. We know all that, he’s not ready.  That is why he's young. You need to work with him, to be ready. You know, and that is what maybe he saw where capacity, like a group to try to create a big group, you know, the club that we were like Southampton or Espanyol to create the, and to build the platform for the, not only the young, the senior players too, or all the xxx, be the best keeper and won the world cup with France, I think to use all the platform to improve, like a player but in, in the same way, growing the same level, like a professional, like a player, you know, and then it's up to them to use this platform, that is, I think it's important to understand, no?

JAKE: How great does it feel when you take experienced older players, players, you've been a club for a long time, young players, players you’ve bought for huge amounts of money, and you've put them all together and you've made the attitude work?  You walk in the room, you feel a good energy, you go out on the field, they play the way you want them to play, they talk to each other the way you want them to talk…

MAURICIO: No, because I think, yes, it’s so simple. When you are capable to create a nice environment, happy environment with that good energy, all the people that arrive for different level, different country, different nationality, different future, is going to be, that xxx is going to be so powerful that it's going to involve you in this same xxx energy, like when it’s negative, it's so powerful negativity that is going.  You can arrive being so nice and positive and a smile but after a few minutes you are going to be, the, in the same circle, no. That is why we need to protect every day and in every single decision and sometime when that is difficult for people understand, when the people believe that understand football.  But football is simple but in the same time it's so complicated because one thing can change this positivity and changing it and negativity and all that run well is going to run wrong.

JAKE: Wrong, yeah.

MAURICIO: Yes.  And that is why, it’s, when you are win games, you need to work more to try to keep winning, because it's easy to go down.  But when you go down it's so difficult to tell and again go up.

JAKE: When you look back on your time at Tottenham, is the thrill for you, the finals and the big wins or is the thrill for you improving people, creating a culture, creating an environment of positivity where everyone is lifted up and everyone becomes a better version of themselves, or is it just three points?  What's the thrill?

MAURICIO: First of all, I think in football, you need to create or build things or coach or work how you are, you know.  And we are no going to change.  Eh, I can no manage the team like a uh, what xxx club.

JAKE: Be you.  No masks?

MAURICIO: Exactly, you need to be yourself.  And of course, eh, it's part of our identity, like eh coaching stuff, in the way that we work.  I think with xxx and helping the player to be better, I think you are going to be close to win - titles. But of course, uh, when I was a player or when I was a child, I always win. I always was about to, to compete. I love the game. I love to play football, but more than play the game, I love to compete.  I want to win in everything. For me in a professional high-performance is compete.

JAKE: Yeah.

MAURICIO: But for, for be the best competitor should need to be professional and to have a plan and to have organization and to create this, to build this platform that is going to be the best thing to, to help you, like I'm give you a player but a collective player, because football is a collective sport.  And I think it’s, if you have the capacity to invest every season, 300 million, and you are going to bring the best player in every single position, of course we are going to be close to win more than if you have this type of capacity or quality player, and no only with the platform you are going to win. But I think when the mix is, you can have the best players that you have, that you can find, with the best platform to perform on, I think you going to be close to win big things.

JAKE: I'd like to get your thoughts on fault versus responsibility, because I believe that lots of people hide behind fault. They blame everything else for things that aren't right. Whereas we should all take 100% responsibility for the situation we're in.  And I often look at football managers and I think, for you and for xxx, and for the whole team, the whole management team, there's always lots of people and lots of things you can blame - ah blame the referee, ah blame the goalkeeper, ah blame the missed penalty, blame the crowd.  How important in life is it, regardless of your job, to take complete responsibility for you and for your surroundings and for the direction your life goes?

MAURICIO: Yes, xxx you need to be responsible about your life first, and you need to, to feel that you drive your life, and you need to be confident that how you are going to drive your life is going to, he's going to bring all that you want.  And then, is the idea that you are going to translate that of course.  I see a lot of circumstance that can happen during a game of football.  They xxxx a xxx, and can be good or bad for your interest. Uh, some decision can affect.  Yes, but in a short period, but I think you need to always think, uh, that is your responsibility.  If you're not win the game is because you need to improve and be better the next day. Um, if we talk about the final of the Champion League, eh, you know, how the VAR was using after that was penalty, there’s another that was more crazy, Hamburg wasn't penalty.  You know, that kind of fate.  But if after that we were maybe capable to score twice, for sure we win, we were better, we were better than Liverpool.  I prefer to say that.  We were better, than Liverpool in this final with a xxx.  And we propose, I think we dominate, and they score of course, and they win, some xxx that affect us.  But I think, if we show with this capacity to score more goals than you're opening, for sure you win.  But what's our responsibility to lose the final and we cannot blame the referee decision or the VAR decision.  But you know, in this business all is possible. All is a, you, you need to accept all the ideas and all the way to work and, the analyse the thing that happen in the, in, in football, you know.

DAMIAN:     How long does it take you to process a defeat?

MAURICIO: I still thinking when you said about massive disappointment in your life, of course, that this is football, this disappointment, this sport, this disappointment is completely different when the real life, I xxx you.  Yes, he's going to be, you know, in some point is very proud to, to, to help, uh, a club like Tottenham to achieve the Champions League final, and to work, and I think made an unbelievable season.  But in some point really sad because I was the great opportunity for us to be in the history of football, and to provide the fans a massive, uh, happiness, and for us, uh, to say we were capable with everything again, uh, to be very successful.  If you lift the trophy, you are very successful. But the second is it's a failure, no.  But we have no thinking like this.  But of course that is, make you sad because of course the people recognize the show - that was fantastic - but um, to finish winning the Champion League, it should be an amazing …

DAMIAN:     So, mentally, when do you draw the line and say, right, we forget it now, we've had the disappointment, we now look forward again?  How long does that take you before you make that decision?

MAURICIO: I wanted to do move quick forward.  But they don't want to say nothing that uh, you know, because now it’s in the past.

JAKE: I think what Damian means, is in your head, when do you decide, right, there's no point focusing on a defeat now.  Now we go forwards.  Because what's the benefit to dwelling on a defeat?

MAURICIO: No, one thing, that was certainly xxx.  I was thinking in to try to xxx again, er…

JAKE: Almost immediately?

MAURICIO: Immediately, yes, because when you are so competitive and when you are a winner, you’re no stuck in the, in the, in the past.  Eh, you lose but you want to win tomorrow again, you want to play and to start to work into xxx. But the problem is when you xxx…

JAKE: But you're able to do that because you've reached the point in your life where you can use failure or negative experience as an energy source.  You can do, can’t you?  That drives you onto the next thing. Yeah?  But not everyone can do that. Some people will just get knocked by failure  They get knocked by disappointment.

MAURICIO: I wasn’t knocked, because of, we didn't win the final, because it was a massive, we want to take like a massive experience for us, and learn and to be ready again for the next season.  Because we were fighting to be on the tough forum, in the same point that we were fighting to be in the final of the Champion League again, Manchester City or Fusball xxx or  Manchester City and xxx,  I, we were fighting to be in the top four, and we, we've had a xxx, we saw on, that no play the first few months because we'll say we gave the possibility to be in the Asian cup to try to avoid the military service.

JAKE: Yeah.

MAURICIO: No one told, or one talk about that.  Eh, because today xxx is in Tottenham, because we allowed them, allowed him to go to play two competition that wasn't a compulsory for, and rather to say no, be selfish and say no, because I am the coach, I need to win.  Sony stay here but for, because of the club because if not to here and you need to stop the contract, with Sony, but no one say nothing about that.  It was my decision, or was our decision, to provide him the time to go to, we didn't have him the first six months, we didn't play with xxx and then we xxx too or different players that were insured. But you know, um, I think that the most important is when you are a winner and you love to compete. And you move quick, on, while the xxx was how to move, you know, and to start again to build this new project that for me was finished, the chapter was finished with the final of the Champion League.

JAKE: How do you learn that though? Like, forget the Champions League and even forget Tottenham, in life how do you learn to get defeated or beaten in whichever circle and then to move on again?  How, how has that, how do people learn to do that? To stay positive?

MAURICIO: With experience.  Because, only with experience. When you suffer the failure, when you suffer the, and then you are very successful, when you are very successful today, you need to feel that tomorrow doing the same, maybe you fail. And you say why?  And you put in question yourself, and when you fail, you say, Oh, I need to stick with my ideas because I going to, I need to be strong because tomorrow I can win.

JAKE: So failure is good.

MAURICIO: I don't like failure because I failed a lot, but I think all the, in life always, you are going to have the percentage of failure and successful you are going to be in your life xxx different xxx.

DAMIAN:     So what would you say has been the most valuable failure that you've had in your career?

MAURICIO: (Laughs) I don't know. I think in every single experience you xxx some emotion. If you uh, are aware about that, make you capitalize the experience without the emotion, and make you, for sure, better.

DAMIAN:     So is there one particular incident where you look back now and you can recognise how valuable the lessons that it taught you was?

MAURICIO: Yeah, I, I cannot say one.  I think plenty of, thousands of experience, uh, that in every circumstance made you to realise that maybe you need to change, or you need to do the thing better.  Of course the last one was, was the Champion of the, the final of the Champion League or …

JAKE: Are you a better manager, for losing the Champions League final?

MAURICIO: No, I am not better manager.  But is true that uh, if I gave my best, I going to give again my best and xxx more farther, you know.  That is er…

JAKE: There’s a fire in you.

MAURICIO: I don't want to feel again that emotion. Um, and that experience for sure, like a group, is going to make us do, we are going to face again a similar situation.  Of course I think we need to put different because it's going to be different circumstance, but try to be farther in, in our preparation or the way that we are going to take the decision for sure.

JAKE: And is it a good reminder that even in a world as exciting as football, you need to stay connected to the real world, the world outside of the game, because when you have these low moments or even the high moments, the reality is not football, the reality is the real world?  Is that important to you?

MAURICIO: Yes, the prize for us real world is football xxx our real world with our family, our friends, uh, the fans, the xxx, er, the people that work every day with you. That is our real world.  Um, I don't know, I think the problem is, um, sometime the stress or the pressure about the money, about the business make you to lose the focus that football is a game. That you need to behave natural, because it’s, you are a talented people that you are involved in football, because you are talented, not because, because of money or because you play football or we coach, no because it’s our way to find money, to ensure what I, what is my passion. My passion is football. I need money, I play football because I love the game.  Our responsibility is to say football is not a ordinary business, and people need to understand.  But today is managing this game, this is xxx, this passion, this obsession.  All that is managing for people that only think maybe in business.

JAKE: Yeah.

MAURICIO: And sometime they believe, because they are in football in xxx for 20 year, they believe that understand all that emotions, and that psychology that only you understand, you were involved in the dressing room, or you touched the ball in front to 100,000 people or 100 million when you are playing in the world cup, that pressure is not when you are you from, I don't know when you are talking from, to the TV, or in the radio that the people is listen you, that affect your psychology and your decision.  And that is why football is changing a lot. And, and um, you know, um, it’s so, it’s, so interesting.

DAMIAN:     I'm always fascinated that you shared a room with Diego Maradona when you were a teenage boy.  What one lesson did you learn from him - the greatest footballer of all time - that you've carried through to today.

MAURICIO: Yes, lucky that we have some pictures, and can show to my kids and my friend that I was with you Maradona when I was a, I was playing with him.  I think this day, what I learned from, from him, eh, again, it's not about football.  Because was a seniors, he’s a seniors.  It was about how simple he was huge, uh, personality, uh, the best player in the world.  How humble he was, and the spirit of that he was like a guardian of, or protecting the spirit of the game. The football is collective, and how he respect his team mate. That is, I think was the most important thing that I learned from him. He was playing for him, but more for, to try to help the team to win. I was lucky to, to, to share with him six months, but every single teammate that he has all talk in the same way.

JAKE: My final question.  All the things that you've learned, all the highs, all the lows, all the travels, all the journeys, when you next stand in front of a bunch of football players at a new club, what's the first thing you will say to those players to get them immediately understanding what is required from you?

MAURICIO: Yes, I think, always I think is a key the first synthesis, the first word, the first hello.  When the first you met, and xxx, I think more than the xxx or worries,  your uh, your attitude, and your energy that you are going to xxx the player.  The first always is about, we are here to try to help you to be the best and to be better, every single day.  And we need to split professional than the human side.  We are going to be there if you need some advice about, because we are older than you.  But and then my decision, my, our decision, our professional decision cannot be affected for our personal relationship. One thing is we are friends, another if you deserve to play or not.  And no mix that is so important.  I see it as two separate things.

JAKE: I love that.  Listen, thank you so much to giving up your time today. We really appreciate it.  I think that the big takeaway for me from this conversation - I know that you're a believer in universal energy - is just bringing positivity into the room. If you bring positivity, you know, it's all taking, taking something in the right direction, and then it's up to them.

MAURICIO: Exactly, it's up to them. And it’s like this.