Robin Van Persie

Robin Van Persie is one the greatest strikers to win the Premier League. He scored 144 goals making him the highest-scoring player from the Netherlands in English top-flight history. He was a cult hero at Arsenal, before moving to arch rivals Manchester United in 2012, then finishing his career at his first club Feyenoord. Listen to the lessons he learnt through his career, the truth behind his controversial Arsenal and Manchester Untied exits, the sacrifices he made to be an elite athlete and so much more.

TRANSCRIPT

JAKE: In your mind, what is high performance?

ROBIN: Uh, performing at the highest level, you know, uh, and that's always difficult because the highest level, um, you have to compete with opponents who are on a similar level, but you still want to be better than them. But that process is a, is a long process to reach that goal, you know, to uh, be on that level which is satisfying for yourself, you know, cause that's a long process.

DAMIAN:         So when did you think that you achieved high performance then Robin?

ROBIN: Well, in my mind, uh, when I was at my highest level, I was, what, 27, 28 personally. So that's a very long road until that moment from, and that starts basically from very young.  From five, six years old you start that process without realizing it. But, um, yeah, I was at my peak personally, mentally, physically, um, around that age.

DAMIAN:         So how would you have defined yourself? So when you were delivering high performance at that age, beyond the physical attributes of being fast and fit and strong, what were the sort of behaviours that you would describe, you were demonstrating during that time of high performance?

ROBIN: During that period everything came together. It's like physically, mentally, more in balance. Um, I was quite impulsive when I was younger, in my reactions, the way I was talking, the way I was behaving, the way I was playing. And that slowly changed over the years because, uh, just by basically, um, uh, listening, looking, learning and improving myself as a person at the start.  And then I brought that back into football because at one point I realised that every game was such a struggle and I didn't really want that.  I didn't want to have a constant struggle.

JAKE: In what way was it a struggle?

ROBIN: It’s like because the opponents found out that, um, if they treated me, if they talked to me in a, in a certain way or if they did all those things, uh, they could get me sent off.

JAKE: What would wind you up?

ROBIN: It was going both ways because if the opponent was like stepping on my toes and so trying to bully me, I was going really hard and uh, I was going against it.  But in the end, after a couple of, after a period, I started to think about that, and then it made sense to me.  I was like, okay, the reaction I have, I shouldn't have that reaction.  I shouldn't go against it.  I should stand above it.  So there's like a process of a couple of years because if I go against it and it will, um, then it's such a struggle.  It was, I was just like mentally, physically I was drained after every match for quite a long time, from the age of 23 to 26. And then I realised that I was like constantly, um, fighting, you know?  And as well I was, um, if I missed a chance, for example, that this process as well, I was very emotional after I missed a chance, I would like constantly, ah, no, and showing the world how disappointed I was.  And then at one point I was like, yeah, but that's weakness somewhere, you know, then, because the opponent sees that I'm disappointed and I'm not happy with myself.  So I slowly started to change that and I was like, okay, you know, if I don't show my weakness, then they don't have, like, if I don't react on their uh, bullying, if I don't react, uh, if I miss a chance, then I become stronger and better.  And once I started to do that, I, uh, talked with Arsene Wenger about this xxx, everything became lighter, you know.  It was so heavy.  It was for all those years it was heavy, but I was making it heavy.  It is, I just needed a couple of years to realise that.

DAMIAN:         What I find interesting on that, Robin, is that, I think that takes real courage to have that reflection because what you'd been doing, had obviously worked for you.  You know, like when you look back at the start of your career of, of, of leaving Excelsior, and then the brilliance that you'd had with, uh, the coach of Feyenoord that you'd obviously been fighting and, and resisting it, and you'd still been achieving success.

ROBIN: Yeah, but that was because of the love of the game. Because I truly love football from the bottom of my heart. I love it. And that is what, uh, well, sort of saved me in a way because I made some stupid mistakes over the years, you know, some silly ones, or…

JAKE: What sort of things did you do?

ROBIN: … from arguing to, uh, with all the players, you know.  It's like you have to know your place as well, in football.  It's like when you're young, that's your place.  You have to earn the right basically.  And, uh, I wasn't doing that.  I was, I was very impulsive. I was very against the rules somehow.  So why was I doing it?  Why was I against the…

JAKE: What do you see? I wonder whether you almost felt you needed to be like that to show you cared, and to show you wanted to be the best. You know, you didn't want to just cruise into training and cruise to training, and cruise through a game.  You almost felt you needed to have a battle every game to show your teammates and yourself…

ROBIN: Yeah, but it was going too far. It was going too far and was becoming a problem because I wasn't creating nice stuff. I was making problems for myself. I wasn't really expressing myself good enough just to solve the problem because most problems started with communication. If you just talk about it in a normal way, you can solve a lot of, uh, possible, uh, problems. And so over the years I kept asking questions, and I even wrote stuff down to myself. So at one point at Arsenal, after two years, I wasn't satisfied, I wasn't happy. It was going okay, but not good enough. So I started to write a letter to myself.  What are my positives and what are my negatives?  And then I noticed that I was lying to myself.  I was, I was making myself look, or feel better. Yeah. So by reading it back, I think, nah, that's not true, Robin.

DAMIAN:         Did you not know, Robin, or did you wife tell you with that?

ROBIN: Yeah, well I was talking with my wife and with my, uh, friends. And then that is something as well. Friends have influence.  Everyone in your life and have an influence and you need to, uh, at one point you need to be very, uh, honest to yourself. If those people in your life, whoever it is, if it's your wife or your friends or your family, have a positive impact on your life. And, uh, I think if you, uh, aim for, um, to be the best in your sport, in this case, you have to be ruthless. At one certain point you have to cut out people, uh, who bring negativity and um, and that is very hard.

JAKE: How did you do it?  Because there'll be people listening to this podcast and they're not professional athletes, but they find their life is made more difficult by the people around them, or xxx train them.

ROBIN: Yes, yes.

JAKE: What process did you go through to decide quite ruthlessly who could no longer be part of your life?

ROBIN: At one point I was ending up in situations where I just didn't want to end up in.  And it wasn't my fault. It was the fault of the people I was around with.  And I was thinking yeah, but okay, this is not bringing me further, you know.  I have a dream. I want to live my dream.  Because I had this romantic idea of my childhood friends, they should always stay with me. They should always stay connected. And, uh, I want them in my life forever. But okay, we have a different life. So at one point I just made an roundup of what they bring, what they offer me.  Because I'm giving them time. In some cases I gave them money, I tried to help them, but what did they give me?  Uh, they have to, at one point they have to, um, accept what, what's, what the situation is of their life and my life. And they have to sort of somehow live by those unwritten rules. And, um, uh, some of my childhood friends didn't do that, so they could not, um, follow, they could not follow me, because I was going fast in my life. So I just rounded it up.  Do they bring something positive in my life. Anything. Even if it's something small, it's fine.

?:       Yeah.

ROBIN: But they weren’t at one certain point.  And then I just divided them, and I said to two of my childhood friends, I said, guys, I said, I love you, I respect you, but I have different dreams than you guys, so it will stop. Yeah.

DAMIAN:         Wow.

ROBIN: It was tough.

DAMIAN:         And how old were you when you were having this conversation?

ROBIN: Uh, 24, 25.  Yeah, and these guys I knew from a young age.  I said, because you have, you make different choices. You have different priorities than me. And I can't have that. I can't have negativity in my life, because this is where I want to go to, and if I have to constantly lose energy on you guys, it's not going to help me. That's ruthless. That's hard. Um, but I felt that I needed to do that.

DAMIAN:         There's a really nice way of describing that.  That's often, did we talk about the people that come with us are with us, for seasons, reasons or lifetimes.

ROBIN: Yeah, you have periods, you have phases with people in your life. In my case because I'm quite intense, I'm all or nothing.  So I had to bring that level down of myself as well. I had to take a little bit softer. There was a process of many years as well. So I, uh, in my private life I started to have friendships which were lighter, not so intense, and that cost less energy, you know, so I could focus more football. But the main thing I think for everyone who's listening as well is that keep asking yourself even stupid questions, you know, keep asking them, um, to yourself and write letters to yourself, or, how it’s going.

JAKE: Do you remember what was in the letters?

ROBIN: Yeah. It was like a, but that letter I wrote to myself was more about, um, about me as a player. Uh, what I liked about myself, what I could improve.

JAKE: From memory, what could you improve?  What did you write down in the improve column?

ROBIN: Goals.  I should score more goals. Um, it was, I should make more runs in behind, by talking to, uh, Saux, xxx, Bergkamp, xxx, all these guys.  Saux told me once, he said Robin, he said, the way you play is a dream for a defender like me.  I said, why? Tell me why. He said, because you want everyone on your feet. You have to force me to make a choice, you know, to close you down or to follow you. You have make runs in behind. So I was like, okay, hang on. Then I came up with the rule, okay, out of three actions, at least one of them needs to be in behind because I have to herd the defenders because xxx told me doesn't like it. So I was like constantly asking myself questions and listening, listening to players who were better than me.

DAMIAN:         What you're describing is something that, uh, is sometimes referred to as the Zander letter.  And it's named after, there's a conductor in Boston called Benjamin Zander.  And when he was teaching, sort of appreciation of music and the arts and things like that, one of the things he found with his students was that they got too caught up in the result that they were getting, rather than the processing, appreciating music. So he used to get them to write a letter to themselves, but base it 12 months in the future, and talk about all the things they were gonna achieve and all the things that were gonna learn to love about music.

ROBIN: Yeah, yeah. I had a chat with a colleague of mine.  Um, I won’t name his name because he's, he's still playing.  But he had this, he came up with this idea. I was listening to him for an hour getting bored. He's was like, yeah, I will buy 50 apartments and I will get a grant per apartment, and this is how I make my money.  And he was playing in the Premier League by then.  And then after one hour he asked me what my opinion was.  I said, well, if you want to make money, you should work on your first touch and your header.  And now I said, this is what you should, uh, work on.  If you do that, you will make 10 times more in this grant per apartment. If you fix that, you will be a world class player.

JAKE: And did he take your advice?

ROBIN: No, he didn't listen.  He didn’t listen.  But to be fair to him he had a good career.  He had OK career, but could be better, should be better.

JAKE: I wonder how different though that, that Robin van Persie is, to the Robin van Persie who was a petulant youth team player causing problems.  I think that often when people first start out, whatever their career, this isn't just about football, everyone starts out selfish.  Because it's about me achieving my aims and my ambitious for my life. And I think it takes time to get to a point where, and that we both agree, you know.  We're all in our, you're not quite in your forties yet.  But we’re in our forties.  And it, life becomes about building other people up ,and it's one of the best feelings. It's almost a better feeling but achieving yourself is

ROBIN: Yeah.

JAKE: helping other people to thrive.  But you, it's hard to do that when you're 15 and 16.

ROBIN: No, it's, it's a, this is a very deep one because would you get to this stage without being selfish, earliest, earliest stages?

JAKE: So you have to be selfish in the beginning to get the success to then be selfless and pass it on?

ROBIN: Yeah, I think so, I think so, to, to actually achieve what you want to achieve, to be able to give back, you have to be selfish.  Then football is ruthless!  And any business is like that.

JAKE: So you have to be selfish.

ROBIN: And you have to come up for yourself. You have to, in a team, any team, in any business, you have to make sure that your position is there, safe, cause otherwise you get eaten.

DAMIAN:         Well, I'm interested in, say like your experience of going into Manchester United. So you, so you'd been through a period at Arsenal where you haven't been winning a lot and it had almost felt like there was a certain drift, or a malaise, and then went into an environment where you were expected to win the title, you came xxx.

ROBIN: Yeah, yeah.

DAMIAN:         There was a, it's seems to me like a very different culture. What was your experience of that?

ROBIN: Um, yeah, it was a different world, if you compare Arsenal with Manchester United. Um, but I was, I was ready for that, uh, world, you know.  It was, it was, um, you know, as a player, as a young player, it was, it was much easier to get into the Arsenal team, into the Arsenal philosophy with a coach like Arsene.  And, um, Manchester United is like a, like a, like a beast, you know.  You have to, you have to perform like, in a day.  So there was, there was different experience for me, but I was ready for that, you know.  And um, like all those years of like asking questions and, uh, becoming better on all levels, uh, did help me to be ready for challenge like that.

DAMIAN:         And what would you say was the biggest difference then that you noticed when you went into Manchester United?

ROBIN: If you're winning, everything is beautiful, you know.  Because of the impact of Manchester United was a bigger, in terms of worldwide amount of fans, etc, the size of the club.  But if you look at, uh, when it doesn't go well.  You know, at Arsenal, if it doesn't go well, you have your coach who protects you. You have your players who protect you.  At Manchester United you are on yourself, you're alone.  No-one protects you.

JAKE: Is that healthy?

ROBIN: But it's tougher, it's ruthless.  Um, and I've experienced that in my second year, when things weren't going well.  I was still scoring 18 goals that second year, scoring 12 for the national team.  So it's not a bad season or something, but people are ruthless.  Not good enough, bang.  Then you are on your own. And uh, there was sort of like a period where I was thinking, am I'm not that bad, you know.  xxx not that bad we would play.  I mean we were still scoring. Okay. Maybe I'm not like last season or whatever, but it's just ruthless - hard.  And then I had to, uh, in my last season, uh, I had xxx xxx, where I had two fairly good season with the national team. Then I worked, uh, okay, the season, his first season, my last season at Manchester was not great. And then, um, I had this chat with Louis van Gaal, and then he told me, okay, Robin, um, I'm the coach, you are the player and uh, you have to go, your time's up. I'm like, um yeah but I still have a contract. He said, yeah, I don't care.

JAKE: Did you see it xxx?

ROBIN: Er, yeah, towards the end of it.  I saw something coming, but not this ruthless.  And the way he said it as well...  Um, and then like a lot of things go through your mind, you know, when you get a message like that. Um, because I still have a contract. My family was happy. It was my 11th year in England. We, uh, love living in England. What's next? You know, my kids going to school, they have their friends and everything.  So in like a split second, all these things come across. And then how do you react to that? You know.  I said, okay. I said we will see what happens. I said, that's your opinion. I said, uh, but I have a contract and I'm happy in England and uh, at Manchester United, and my family is as well.  So we will see what happens. Um, and I just shook his hand, stood up.  I was at the golf club in Mere, stood up and left it.

JAKE: And how quickly did you decide that on the training pitch, and in games, you would, you would attempt to change his mind and prove to him that he's made a mistake?

ROBIN: Well, on the way back home, uh, I was thinking, okay, this is stuff, you know, this is a, how do you react to a message like that, you know, that, ruthless, that hard, that direct?  And then, uh, loads of things, uh, came through my mind. And we started preseason.  And I wasn't allowed to play in the 11 against 11.  Uh, xxx the own stuff. I was like, okay.  So you try to stay calm, stay cool. You know what I mean? But there's, there's like loads of thing happening. You, you're playing the macho, uh, card, okay.  Doesn't affect me, doesn't do this, but it does affect me and my family and, and my career, you know, big time. Maybe at that point it was good for me to talk to someone outside my inner circle, but I was too stubborn as well to do that.  Now if I look back at it there were maybe a couple of points in my career where I should have done that. I had that feeling like, like a life coach or a mentor, a trainer. Um, I always had the feeling, yeah, but these people would create problems instead of solving them.  So I kept them at distance. And, uh, up until today I never had a session, uh, with, with anyone in that way. But now I'm open to it, and maybe it's partly age, experience, um, but, um, if I look back at my career, could have been a good case if I would have talked to someone like, at this particular moment.

JAKE: For example?

DAMIAN:         But it’s often said that, like, the best managers are the best psychologists as well.  So who would you say was the best coach you had that got the best out of you as an individual?

ROBIN: Well, I was lucky to have such great coaches and um.  But Arsene, Arsene was so intelligent.  Uh, he was, you could talk to him about anything.  And um, what I learned from him as well, and this is like, this is when you talk to Arsene, he's not answering straight, maybe you xxx.  He's letting the question in first, then he checks you out when you have a normal conversation.  He checks you from the front, from the left, from the right, then the answers. So I was like, I'm ready to swim with my answers, you know.  And sometimes I think my answer’s too fast, you know.  I should've thought about it a bit longer. And then I saw him doing that in interviews, and just by chatting to him I think, okay, I will pick that up for me. Yeah, that's clever.

JAKE: You were learning more than just football from Arsene Wenger?

ROBIN: Yes, very much.  And yeah, he's a professor in uh, maths in uh, German English. Such a clever guy. I was learning as well off the pitch by looking at books, and even how to have their lunch.  Early days I had my lunch like quick, quick, quick bang, in, out always on the, on the go. And then I saw these guys.  They were putting their jacket on the seat and they were talking before they were eating.  They were making jokes. Then they enjoyed their lunch. Then they have a nice cup of coffee. It was just so xxx, so relaxed, you know. And I was, I was so everything except relaxed.  I was all over the place.

DAMIAN:         I've read a story that Ian Wright told that when he shared with Dennis Bergkamp, and he saw him wearing pyjamas.  And he said that he started to wear pyjamas cause Dennis Bergkamp did on away trips. So yeah, you're in good company in terms of copying him.

ROBIN: Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah.  Dennis, Dennis was a very interesting person, character, player. It's like off-camera he’s one of the funniest guys you’ll ever see, especially in English. So funny, so dry. It's ridiculous.  It’s xxx when the camera, when the lights go on, the he’s shy, you know, almost, but very clever, clever guy. And I learn a lot by just looking at him, you know.

JAKE: So when you've spent your formative football years with Arsene Wenger, and he's taught you so much more than just football, almost like a father figure, lots of players talk about him like that, how difficult was the conversation the day when you went to him to explain what had to change at Arsenal for you to stay?

ROBIN: Uh, well, there was actually, uh, before our last decisive jet, there was an Austrian training camp before that, uh, we were, um, changing our philosophies of how to bring the club forward. Um, but it was not only between me and Arsene, because it was like I told you before, uh, there was more happening with Ivan xxx, and then the way he behaved and he, um, handled the whole situation.

JAKE: Do you want to talk about that?

ROBIN: If I look back at that whole situation is that, um, you know, in that situation I have to look at myself as well where I could've done better or have done something differently.  If I look back at that, that open letter, I didn't mention it during our show with xxx.  That open letter, I shouldn't have done that. You know, if look back at it, it is impossible to, in such a delicate, difficult situation of making a transfer after spending so much time with Arsenal, um, to make a decision to write an open letter to tell my truth in two pages is impossible.

DAMIAN:         And where did you do that, sorry, Robin?  Where was the letter?

ROBIN: Yeah, I think back then I went to the newspaper because there was not …

JAKE: In the Telegraph, I think?

ROBIN: Yeah, so I did that and uh, that was because I was disappointed with Ivan.

JAKE: At his behaviour.

ROBIN: Um, but I could not go into detail about what exactly then, you know, because it’s just impossible to tell the whole story behind it. And partly was, uh, the fact that Arsenal didn't offer me a deal. Okay. But, um, so there was, there was, um, if I look back at that, I should have done that better.

JAKE: Cause the difficult thing for Arsenal fans even…

ROBIN: Yeah

JAKE: is, you know, we talk about the fact that they didn't offer you a deal, but then when you release the, the statement to the papers, you said you've decided not to stay.

ROBIN: Yeah, exactly.

JAKE: For Arsenal fans it's still a difficult period xxx  they still don’t quite understand it I don’t think.

ROBIN: I can promise you, on my kids…, if everyone, if, if someone comes with proof that Arsenal offered me a deal, I will give you a million now, today.

JAKE: But did you make it almost impossible to offer you a deal because you were so demanding, because you were so desperate to win the Premium League.

ROBIN: No, it was, it was Arsenal, Arsenal’s decision not to offer me a deal. And, um, that is up to them. You know? Uh, after many conversations, it came clear that, uh, we had different ideas ...

JAKE: What was it that you think was lacking?  Like what, what did you need from Arsenal at that time to convince you to stay?

ROBIN: I had, I had seven points, eh xxx Arsenal could improve. And in my opinion, those seven points should, um, they should start with dealing with them straight away, to be able to compete with the best teams.

JAKE: Do you remember what they were?

ROBIN: Yeah, but you know, it's, doesn't really matter what points they were.  The, the, what matters is that, um, Ivan decided that he didn't agree on one single point of those seven points - which is fair enough. So taking that information onboard so Arsenal doesn't offer me a deal, that didn't agree with my views, you know, my views were only to help, you know, it was like honest views of how other clubs should move forward. That's a very clear message. You know, for me it is not a issue anymore. I'm now talking with you about it for the second time and that is fine. Uh, it is not an issue for me. It's, that's life.  That's life at the top, you know.  Uh, clubs, businesses make decisions, you know, and players as well in this case do as well. And I'm perfectly happy how it ended up. Now, I went to Manchester United. I, uh, we won the league. Um, you know, so it's perfectly fine for me and I'm not angry with Ivan, you know, and I'm grateful to have worked with Arsene for eight years.  He played such a crucial part in my career. I can honestly say that without his influence, uh, I would not be the player I ended up with, uh, in the end. So I'm thankful. I'm happy and thankful. It's just that there's certain facts you can't look away from, you know.  It's, it's just how it was.

JAKE: And is it hard when you can't talk because you, you know, you played through injuries, you dedicated yourself every day. You trained hard, you loved the crowd, loved the fans, loved the manager.

ROBIN: Yeah, I did.

JAKE: And then when, when it all, when the fallout happens, you just have to kind of accept it. And I always, you know, whether it's football or something else, I think that's a very difficult position for human being to be in where you're like, hold on there.  That's, your, you've seen 10% of the truth and you've made the other 90% up, you know?

ROBIN: Yeah, but I do, I sort of realise that, that, that people have the judgment ready based on 10% like you said.  And that is how it is. Uh, honestly, I can, you know, I'm grateful for Arsenal for years.  I’ve played there for Arsene. Um, Ivan and me didn't really click. Uh, that can happen as well. But you know, it's a big man's world, and there is a moment where you have to uh, move on, you know? And, um, like I said as well with, uh, sometimes in the top can be ruthless, you know, uh, sometimes in your favour, sometimes against you.  But to come back on this topic is how do you deal with that? You know, how do you deal with, uh, such things who have such a big impact on your life? You know.  Key to that is communicating, keep talking. And although some situations can be very difficult, stay open for others, because I know a lot of colleagues of mine as well who tend to close up, you know.  When things become difficult, they close up and they stop to talk to anyone. But that is not a solution. You should, should stay yourself, stay open, keep asking questions and um, stay friendly, you know?

DAMIAN:         So you made a comment earlier, Robin, where you spoke about when you first as a young player, you had to know your place in terms of what you could say and what you could challenge. When did you feel that it was your place to go and make these seven points and challenge the culture and what you saw the club needed to do?

ROBIN: That was my, eh, period when I was the captain, top scorer, uh, that was the period where I felt that, you know, my views would count.

DAMIAN:         Right.

ROBIN: And, uh, as a 20 year old kid, your views of how the club should move forward don't really count, you know, then you have to fight for your place, uh, be quiet and learn and um, be a better player, try to be a better player every day. But I was 28, xxx nine. You know, I felt, you know, uh, that, that it was my right to give my honest opinion.

DAMIAN:         Sure.  It sounds like you were isolated on your own in terms of that the court decided to reject you from the organization. Do you feel you could have recruited other characters within that dressing room that had equal weight or equal credibility to enhance your argument?

ROBIN: Yeah, good point. Um, for example, some colleagues did came up and they wanted to support me, but I said no because for one reason is that I didn't want to put them in a difficult place.  I didn’t want to put them in my place because it was my right to speak out.  I was, I was the captain of that team. So in my opinion, if I would bring two or three other guys who shared my opinion, it would put them in a difficult place. I will not do that because you know, uh, I will take the blame, I will live, live with the consequences, whatever they are. But I don't want to put you guys into this position.

JAKE: It's not an easy thing, is it, for a football club to say actually that footballer, that individual player can help to change the culture of, of this football club. But maybe that's the healthiest thing. The healthiest thing to do at a football club is to take the input from an experienced pro a 19 year old who can tell you what the pathway is like from the Academy, from the person that served the lunch, everyone, I think not just in football but in life, everyone should be able to add to a culture.

ROBIN: xxx

DAMIAN:         Clive Woodward used to talk about it, that the trouble is when you were a head coach, everyone tries harder in the gym.  Everyone runs a bit faster.  So you know what the question is: what's happening when you are not in the gym?

ROBIN: It’s a very good point.  That's a very good point. But the um, at the clubs they tend to um, have, sort of create that feeling like, okay, you are a football player, you should stick to playing football. Well, I'm more of the type of guy, you know, even the kit man is, his opinion I would like to know, you know, especially him, because he's right in the middle of that team. What is the reason why this, some Presidents or people in higher functions behave like that?  And the only reason I can come up with is that they're trying to protect their own position.

DAMIAN:         Sure.

ROBIN: And, um, is that uh, it's a big, is that a big way or thinking? No, of course not. You know, and that should change in my opinion. You should listen because you're all in it together. And in a smaller version, uh, I, uh, like when I was mid twenties, I just realised because, uh, early days I was like, yeah, okay, this is my position and I have to uh, try to play and uh, I don't really talk to the manager.  And then at one point I was talking to Arsene, but first I was scared to talk to him. Uh, at one point I realised like, no, no hang on. So we are this team, we have the coach, he has his stuff. If the medical staff, if Mr. Dean in the first couple of years around, I said, we should all work together, so I should really start opening up to the coach because we have, so we are working together on the same targets, so why, there's no reason for me to be scared of the coach.  Why should it be scared of him?  So that was the moment where I realised, like, Okay, hang on, you know, I will just ask him questions, I will just talk to him. Like…

JAKE: It's almost like you realised that your job is more than just doing your job.

ROBIN: Exactly.

JAKE: And it's, this is actually a common theme I think with the conversation we've had, we've had with Robin, whether it's writing down notes, whether it's going and seeing Arsene Wenger about the future of the football club, whether it is taking on board criticism from Louis van Gaal that you're going to leave Man United and trying to retain your place there. The recurring theme I think is that there's a, there was a moment in your career where you realised you have to take the responsibility. No one else is going to run your career for you.

ROBIN: Yes. And that is what, um, I did when I was about 24, 25 half way.  And I actually had this chat last week, funnily enough, seriously, with my son.  So my son, uh, plays a final.  He played against, um, Ajax under 14. He was on the bench. He didn't play. So, uh, in the car on the way back, it was like a bit xxx, disappointed, complaining a little bit about, uh, others, about the coach, etc.  And then I said, yeah. I said, but Shakeel, I said, you sound like a loser, you know.  If you talk like this, in a way, it sound like you lost. I said, you are blaming him, you are blaming her, you're blaming this, you’re blaming everything.  I said, but I don’t hear one single thing about yourself.  I said, winners, I said, they take control.  And they blame themselves, and they look where they can improve.  Yeah.  And this is what you should be thinking about.  So I didn't tell him what you should think about.  You should ask yourself the question, are you a loser or are you a winner?  I said, for me, it doesn't matter. I said, I said, because I'm your dad, the only job I have and your mom has, is when you're 20, that you are a good boy, that you're ready for life, you know.  You can make your mistakes, you can do what you want.  I love you for the same amount.  It doesn't matter for me if you make it as a football player or not. I said, but you say that this, this is your passion. So, uh, you should take control of your life and stop complaining, because sounds like a loser. I said, I don't mind if you want to be loser, be a looser.  I still love you as much.  I said, I said it doesn't matter for me. I said, but if you want to be a winner take control of your life and stop complaining about others. And then I watched him training the next morning.  Uh, my, my wife said, where are you going? I said, well, I'm going to watch this session - uh, two days later actually, cause they played on Saturday, and Monday morning.  So I’m there sitting, cold, hoodie on.  I'm looking, and I see this tiger training, running, working. I was like, ah, okay, okay, he realised he has to take control of his life. He’s xxx now.

JAKE: That’s the podcast right there by the way.  That is it, that is everything High Performance podcast is about.

DAMIAN:         Did anyone ever have that conversation with you?

ROBIN: Um, well in, in like bits and pieces, yeah, over the years.  Um, what I like about, for example Arsene, is that he never really judged me, you know.  It was almost like, like a parent in a way. Um, because my, my son, I can, it doesn't help if you judge people constantly, if you tell them off, and if you say you have to do this.  It doesn't work like that, you know? It’s their process, you have to be, have to respect their process of, of your kids or your friends, and you can advise them, you can, um, you can guide them for certain way.  But in the end they have to make the mistake. They will make the mistake, let them make it, and then they decide what they do with it, you know? But sometimes it's good to give them a guideline.  But Arsene as well, I said to him, why are you not a top player?  You still not a top player.  I said, okay, tell me why I'm not a top player.  No, I'm not telling you.  You have to find out yourself.  So you have conversations like that, he said, you have to ask yourself the right questions.  He said, he said, look around you, he said, xxx these top players, but you’re not one of them.

JAKE: Did he?

ROBIN: Yeah.

JAKE: And your reaction can go two ways then.  You can either deal with that and make yourself a top player, or that can break some people.

ROBIN: Yeah, and then I started to look at Perez, how he played, look at xxx, how he made his runs, look at Dennis, look at Jerry, look at Vieira. I was thinking, ah, he's right, he's right.  I'm so far off, you know.  These guys are on such a level, that's where I want to go. But he was not forcing me into it, you know.

JAKE: You had to find the answer.

ROBIN: I had to find the answers myself.

DAMIAN:         xxx in coaching?  Isn't that the art of great coaching?

ROBIN: I think so…

DAMIAN:         xxx the question and then let you answer it.

ROBIN: Yeah, exactly.  But that is a perfect way because you have to feel it, you know?  If you see though, if you hear it, okay, sometimes it can be enough, but most times it's not enough.  You have to feel it. You have to find out yourself, you know.  And along the way you can make mistakes, you can struggle, you can, uh, in the end you decide if you want to be a winner or loser. It's your decision.

JAKE: Right.  We're going to finish with some quick fire questions.

ROBIN: Okay.

JAKE: What is the absolutely unacceptable behaviour that you just don't tolerate? What's the one thing that really winds you up?

ROBIN: Um, well I think as a person, uh, it defines you, how you behave towards people you don't think you need, you know.  I think that is what define, that is the status of a person in my opinion.  So for example, if you are in a restaurant and you are arrogant towards the waitress, for example, to the people help you and you're [clicks fingers] one of them, then I don't think you're a good person, you know, especially towards the people we don't tend to need, you know.  If you're a good guy, just be good because you're good, not because you think you might need someone or…

DAMIAN:         So what would you say, Robin, are the three non-negotiable behaviours that you and people around you have to buy into?

ROBIN: Um, you have to be polite. Um, you have to have manners.  That is what I tell my kids as well.  But this is quick fire. This is not really going well, as quick fire.

JAKE: So, what are the three?

ROBIN: Oh, okay, politeness, manners and um, yeah, desire to achieve.

JAKE: What advice would you give to a teenage Robin Van Persie just starting his career?

ROBIN: Ah, just relax, just relax, have a breather to…

JAKE: Enjoy it.

ROBIN: Enjoy the ride, yeah.

DAMIAN:         And how did you react to your greatest failure?

ROBIN: Well this is a difficult question to answer quick fire, right?

JAKE: What is your greatest failure?

ROBIN: Yeah, good question.  We’ll have to find it out. [everyone laughs]

JAKE: We’ll come back to that one.  Are you happy?

ROBIN: Yes, I am. Yeah, yeah. Not perfect, but happy. Yeah.

DAMIAN:         How important is legacy to you?

ROBIN: Yeah, important. Important because I, um, I like the idea that I had an influence on some people along the way, like a positive influence.  So a, that is some sort of legacy.

JAKE: And not just related to football, but this is related to life. Okay. What is your one golden rule to living a high performance life?

ROBIN: Try to live in one world that is, um, very difficult, especially nowadays. Distractions all over the place, but try to live that world what you choose for. Then you are able to compete at the highest level, you know.  Because you tend to mix it up and to um, be the best for example player you can be, and then you have a, there's a nice party there as well, and let's go to the party and let’s do this and let’s do that.  You try to live in five, six worlds. Um, try to, especially during your prime time during your career, try to live in one.

JAKE: Comes back to taking responsibility, doesn't it?

ROBIN: Yeah, exactly.

JAKE: Have you worked out your greatest failure?

ROBIN: [laughs]

JAKE: Maybe you just didn’t have one xxx.  Let’s imagine your son fails. Yeah?

ROBIN: Yeah.

JAKE: What would you say to him, once he's failed at something?  What's the best way to react to that moment? Cause I, I'm a real firm believer that failure is healthy.  Failure is a good thing.

ROBIN: Yeah.  And failure, you should make mistakes. You should, um, I'm telling my kids as well. We are trying to raise them very openly and um, we are trying to, uh, sort of send them the message that they can make mistakes, can fail, but that, you know, but whatever they do, and my daughter, she rides a horse now five times a week, and she's really serious about it. I said, okay. I said, you can fail, you can even fell off the horse. You can fall off. It's fine. But, um, you know, once you’ve found your passion, do your best, do your best, your maximum.  Give your maximum, whatever that is, then, then it's always fine, you know? And then you can fail, or you can fall off as many times as you want, but do your best.

JAKE: Brilliant. Do you know what that conversation was exactly what I hoped it would be.

ROBIN: I really liked it. Thank you very much.